Impeachment Hearings

[Belsnickel]

(01-28-2020, 05:44 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: How ironic is it that Schiff just stated we aren't in an investigative stage all the while pandering for the cameras to get Boldens testimony.

Not ironic at all. That is how trials work.

[HarleyDog]

(01-28-2020, 06:09 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: But, we’re not one guy away from knowing about this because guys like LTC Vindman, with first hand knowledge, also reported what occurred.  

But, even if we were one guy away from knowing; so?

Bull. His supervisor who was in the room also said Trump did nothing wrong. He cancelled Vindmans lie out.

[NATI BENGALS]

I guess I am old fashioned.

Back in my day people would have cared if their tax dollars were illegally used by our president to bribe a leader of a foreign country for personal gain. Especially if that foreign country was an ally desperate for help who was in the middle of fighting one of our most threatening adversaries.

But like the conman's lawyer Alan dumboshitz (sp?) (the friend of Epstein), said on OUR SENATE FLOOR today, even if it did happen its not impeachable. Us dumb ass dip shit jackasses should just let this stuff happen.

[NATI BENGALS]

Oh yea. Just wanted to point out. That guy on the TV today. The big time as seen on tv lawyer. That's the same guy who helped get Epstein off the hook so he could go on and get away with years of being an absolute scumbag death sentence worthy sexual predator.

Real stand up crowd!

SAD!!!! day for my country.

God damn this prez has embarrassed us enough.

[hollodero]

(01-29-2020, 12:04 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Bull. His supervisor who was in the room also said Trump did nothing wrong. He cancelled Vindmans lie out.

How is a different interpretation of what was said in the call "cancelling out a lie"? They saw it differently! That doesn't mean one of the two lies.

- also, it's not about if Vindman or Morrison thought Trump "did something wrong". It doesn't matter what either of them thought. Vindman thought it was potentially illegal, Morrison thought it was disappointing and a PR problem. Both went to the lawyers because of the "perfect" call. And still one of those two in that scenario has to be the liar?

I don't know. You see no lie with Trump, but here you're all over the place with lieing accusations. That isn't too plausible.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(01-29-2020, 12:04 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Bull. His supervisor who was in the room also said Trump did nothing wrong. He cancelled Vindmans lie out.

Who are you referring to as his supervisor? Somebody who worked for Trump said Trump didn’t do anything wrong?

What lies? There is no doubt the aid was withheld or why the aid was withheld. Trump and his associates admitted they did it. The U.S. Government Accountability Office has reported withholding the aid was against the law. There is no doubt that it happened. So what did Vindman lie about exactly?

Have we reached the point as a nation where we will accuse an active duty soldier working at the National Security Council of lying? On the one hand there is a career Army officer who is squeaky clean enough to pass the background and security checks to work at the NSC who risked a 20 year career to do the right thing. On the other hand Is a habitual liar who paid $25 million to hard working Americans he defrauded to attend his scam of a university. Same habitual liar that used scam charities for personal gain which have sine been disbanded by court order lest he misuse any other donations. Same guy who lied about paying off Stormy Daniels. He lied about windmill noise cancer for Christ’s sake. Windmill noise cancer. C’mon.


If Vindman’s integrity and honesty are so questionable why is he still working at the NSC? working with top secret information. daily. Don’t you agree it is rather odd to have someone so untrustworthy still holding a security clearance sufficient to continue working at the National Security Council?

If I have to choose who to believe between those two, I’ll believe the guy wearing the Army uniform because he didn’t lie about the bone spurs he never had. If others want to believe the draft dodger with an alleged medical condition that isn’t even disqualifying for military service . . .

[Benton]

(01-29-2020, 02:27 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I guess I am old fashioned.

Back in my day people would have cared if their tax dollars were illegally used by our president to bribe a leader of a foreign country for personal gain. Especially if that foreign country was an ally desperate for help who was in the middle of fighting one of our most threatening adversaries.

But like the conman's lawyer Alan dumboshitz (sp?) (the friend of Epstein), said on OUR SENATE FLOOR today, even if it did happen its not impeachable. Us dumb ass dip shit jackasses should just let this stuff happen.

Well trump wasn't bribing. Congress had already issued the funds. Trump was just inserting himself to use the funds for his advantage (dirt on a political opponent and an attempt to clear Russia of campaign meddling conspiracy theories).

But you strike on one of my issues with all of this. We shouldn't have been sending them aide in the first place. We've got bridges falling apart, horrific income gaps and veterans sleeping under bridges. Why are we tossing cash at other counties?

[NATI BENGALS]

(01-29-2020, 05:15 AM)Benton Wrote: Well trump wasn't bribing. Congress had already issued the funds. Trump was just inserting himself to use the funds for his advantage (dirt on a political opponent and an attempt to clear Russia of campaign meddling conspiracy theories).

But you strike on one of my issues with all of this. We shouldn't have been sending them aide in the first place. We've got bridges falling apart, horrific income gaps and veterans sleeping under bridges. Why are we tossing cash at other counties?

Definition of bribe
 (Entry 1 of 2)

1: money or favor given or promised in order to influence the judgment or conduct of a person in a position of trust

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bribe


bribe


Pronunciation [/url]/brīb/ /braɪb/ 
TRANSITIVE VERB
[WITH OBJECT]

• Persuade (someone) to act in one's favor, typically illegally or dishonestly, by a gift of money or other inducement.
  

[url=https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/bribe]https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/bribe

[NATI BENGALS]

(01-29-2020, 05:15 AM)Benton Wrote: Well trump wasn't bribing. Congress had already issued the funds. Trump was just inserting himself to use the funds for his advantage (dirt on a political opponent and an attempt to clear Russia of campaign meddling conspiracy theories).

But you strike on one of my issues with all of this. We shouldn't have been sending them aide in the first place. We've got bridges falling apart, horrific income gaps and veterans sleeping under bridges. Why are we tossing cash at other counties?

We are a good ally and like a stable planet I guess? We like to do the right thing and stand up for people and help people. Stuff like that probably.

[GMDino]

Watching Trump supporters try everything they can to defend this (and I mean the voters I know and the average citizens I read about*) amazes me.

I hope I never was so neck deep into something that I could not see anything but my own way and that I looked *this* bad.  While the situation isn't black and white it is hard to see people argue that water is indeed NOT wet and besides we don't even know what "wet" is and if Trump wants to SAY it isn't wet that is fine because OTHER people have said the same.



*Politicians supporting Trump fall into a different territory.  They progressed from "nothing happened" to "sure it happened, so what".  Voters are still denying he did anything wrong at all.

[GMDino]

(01-28-2020, 09:52 AM)GMDino Wrote: I don't want to derail this back and forth.  Seriously I find it fascinating.

But I wanted to add something to the Pompeo incident which I think was in this thread:

State Department removes @NPR's @michelekelemen from @SecPompeo plane--where she was scheduled for a pool radio rotation--during upcoming trip to London, Kiev. Comes after @SecPompeo accused media of being "unhinged" after @NPRKelly interview and subsequent back and forth.

— Nick Schifrin (@nickschifrin) January 27, 2020

 

Back to this real quick as it adds to the "Trump way" of government.

Pompeo denied it happened the way the reporter said it did.  He lied about her questions and how he handled it off the record.  NPR releases documents to show she was well within her boundaries to ask about Ukraine and the POTUS congratulates Pompeo for "taking it to" the reporter.

Pres. Trump to Sec. of State Mike Pompeo: "That reporter couldn't have done too good a job on you yesterday, huh? I think you did a good job on her, actually." https://t.co/GJHB6Sx4Dt pic.twitter.com/eyxHU30j0M

— Evan McMurry (@evanmcmurry) January 28, 2020

 




Deny, lie, admit and praise because it "perfect".

Pompeo, Trump.

[*michaelsean*]

(01-29-2020, 06:40 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Definition of bribe
 (Entry 1 of 2)

1: money or favor given or promised in order to influence the judgment or conduct of a person in a position of trust

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bribe


bribe


Pronunciation [/url]/brīb/ /braɪb/ 
TRANSITIVE VERB
[WITH OBJECT]

• Persuade (someone) to act in one's favor, typically illegally or dishonestly, by a gift of money or other inducement.
  

[url=https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/bribe]https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/bribe

I think this would be more like blackmail.  The money was already promised to them by Congress.    

[BmorePat87]

Why didn’t John Bolton complain about this “nonsense” a long time ago, when he was very publicly terminated. He said, not that it matters, NOTHING!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 29, 2020

It's amusing to see him keep pushing the fact that Bolton was fired considering Bolton tried to tender his resignation, Trump told him to hold off on it, and then Trump fired him the next day. I guess that plays well with the "Trump has never lied" crowd?

That aside, Bolton 1) was told he could not testify by Trump and 2) could not disclose this until he got the White House to review his book. Also, 3) Trump's potential executive privilege claim is hurt by his initial release of the transcript and his attacks on Bolton.

[Belsnickel]

(01-29-2020, 09:45 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I think this would be more like blackmail.  The money was already promised to them by Congress.    

Yes, but POTUS has to release the funds. Holding them violates the law, but it still takes an action from POTUS to send the funds.

[*michaelsean*]

(01-29-2020, 10:14 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Yes, but POTUS has to release the funds. Holding them violates the law, but it still takes an action from POTUS to send the funds.

I'm not trying to argue about what it's called, but bribe doesn't seem to fit.  I sign the paychecks at work.  If I refuse to sign someone's until they do something for me, that's not really a bribe.  I'm kind of blackmailing them. 

[Belsnickel]

Something not being talked about as much from the Bolton manuscript: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/28/us/politics/bolton-book-trump-china-turkey.html

Quote:WASHINGTON — It was late 2018, and President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey was on the phone with an unusual request for President Trump: Could he intervene with top members of his cabinet to curb or even shut down a criminal investigation into Halkbank, one of Turkey’s largest state-owned banks?

It was not Mr. Erdogan’s only effort to persuade the Trump administration to back off the investigation into the bank, which had been accused of violating United States sanctions against Iran.

His government had hired a lobbying firm run by a friend of and fund-raiser for Mr. Trump to press his case with the White House and State Department. And there would be more phone calls between the two leaders in which the topic came up, according to participants in the lobbying.

Mr. Erdogan’s influence campaign is now under scrutiny again in Washington, following the disclosure that Mr. Trump’s former national security adviser, John R. Bolton, reported in his forthcoming book his concern that the president was effectively granting personal favors to Mr. Erdogan and President Xi Jinping of China.

People familiar with the unpublished manuscript said Mr. Bolton wrote that he had shared his concern with Attorney General William P. Barr and that Mr. Barr responded by pointing to Mr. Trump’s intervention in two cases linked to Turkey and China: the investigation of Halkbank and Mr. Trump’s decision in 2018 to lift sanctions on ZTE, a major Chinese telecommunications company.

The Justice Department has disputed Mr. Bolton’s account. But on Tuesday, top Democrats seized on the suggestions of meddling in the Halkbank and ZTE cases as fresh evidence that Mr. Trump, whose family enterprise has extensive business ties to Turkey and also has considered building new towers in China and expanding in other areas, was using the presidency to enrich himself and his family.

“Several members of the administration had concerns about the president’s dealings with autocrats,” Senator Chuck Schumer of New York, the Democratic minority leader, said at a news conference. “Did the president have financial interests at stake when he was talking to Erdogan or Xi and others?”

He added: “Maybe his kids had some economic interest at stake. And did it impact our nation’s foreign policy with those countries?”

Former foreign policy officials — including some who served in Republican administrations — said in interviews that Mr. Trump plays an unusual and at times disturbing role in high-profile criminal and sanction cases involving foreign governments.

Now, what Bolton said about Ukraine isn't really new. It's a bombshell because it is a direct witness, but we already knew what he was saying. This, however, is something long suspected but now being confirmed.

[*michaelsean*]

(01-29-2020, 10:19 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Something not being talked about as much from the Bolton manuscript: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/28/us/politics/bolton-book-trump-china-turkey.html


Now, what Bolton said about Ukraine isn't really new. It's a bombshell because it is a direct witness, but we already knew what he was saying. This, however, is something long suspected but now being confirmed.

Jesus we could have impeachment hearings through November.  I'm sorry to say, as I lead a relatively boring life, that I may find some entertainment value in that.  And sometimes complete chaos ends up in cleaning out a bunch of crap as it passes through.  

[Belsnickel]

(01-29-2020, 10:24 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Jesus we could have impeachment hearings through November.  I'm sorry to say, as I lead a relatively boring life, that I may find some entertainment value in that.  And sometimes complete chaos ends up in cleaning out a bunch of crap as it passes through.  

I have long advocated for a big shakeup with our government. That being said, what I want to happen isn't what most people think would be the right thing, but I think we are at a place where many of the weaknesses in our democracy are being laid bare and we need to see that.

[*michaelsean*]

(01-29-2020, 10:40 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I have long advocated for a big shakeup with our government. That being said, what I want to happen isn't what most people think would be the right thing, but I think we are at a place where many of the weaknesses in our democracy are being laid bare and we need to see that.

Oh there's lots of things that occur to me, but most aren't probably very practical.  For instance I don't like ambitious people in government, but of course it usually takes an ambitious person to run for office.  
We spend an insane amount of time watching what happens in Washington.  If everything they do is so damn important, then we've given them far too much power.
I'd like to pull every troop out of foreign countries and let everyone take care of their own stuff.  I used to like the idea of the US taking charge around the world, but that was just misplaced ego.  

Lots more stupid stuff where that came from. 

[Belsnickel]

(01-29-2020, 11:16 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Oh there's lots of things that occur to me, but most aren't probably very practical.  For instance I don't like ambitious people in government, but of course it usually takes an ambitious person to run for office.  
We spend an insane amount of time watching what happens in Washington.  If everything they do is so damn important, then we've given them far too much power.
I'd like to pull every troop out of foreign countries and let everyone take care of their own stuff.  I used to like the idea of the US taking charge around the world, but that was just misplaced ego.  

Lots more stupid stuff where that came from. 

Well, I'm for a complete government reformation complete with a new Constitution. I'd accept a lot of amendments, but a complete re-write might be in order. Jefferson and Madison did not anticipate the Constitution lasting more than a couple generations, with Jefferson even saying it shouldn't survive more than two. It becomes outdated and needs revamping.

We currently have the oldest written constitution still in use (Britain has their common law business which is older, but not a written document) and it has gone unchanged for close to 30 years, and it was 20 years before that where it had been changed prior. The changing landscape of our country and the world demands an updated guiding document but we're too focused on short-term, micro issues rather than the long-term big picture stuff that we don't see the cracks in the foundation of our government that are about to bring this house tumbling down.