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**Belsnickel** · 08-27-2020, 12:29 PM

(08-27-2020, 12:22 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: If I was on the jury I would say that he has more than enough to say he had fear for at least serious injury. There's no reason why he should be chasing Kyle. Kyle was trying to get the f out of dodge and they continue go after him. You don't have eyes in the back of your head and you don't know if or when they're going to catch you. People have been beaten to death for less from these kinds of mobs in recent events. There is evidence of the victim harassing other militia before this happened. Telling a black person "Shoot me, Nig**r". Yes, I don't know if Kyle slapped the guy and ran away, but why in the world would you run after and throw things at someone with a gun when you're unarmed?

You're making a ton of assumptions with this post for which there is no evidence. He had one person chasing him at first and we don't know what precipitated it. Either one of them could have started the confrontation, and the same goes for the guy who was shot with his earlier situation. You've made up your mind by filling in gaps based upon your point of view and not based on evidence.

**Brownshoe** · 08-27-2020, 12:40 PM

(08-27-2020, 12:29 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: You're making a ton of assumptions with this post for which there is no evidence. He had one person chasing him at first and we don't know what precipitated it. Either one of them could have started the confrontation, and the same goes for the guy who was shot with his earlier situation. You've made up your mind by filling in gaps based upon your point of view and not based on evidence.

Idk what you're talking about. Everyone who he shot was on video. The first guy was charging him (the guy who was recorded earlier saying "shoot me ni**a") https://twitter.com/Julio_Rosas11/status/1298857915202314240. I'm saying that right there is evidence that he would have started it, and even if Kyle did slap the pedophile (he is actually a registered sex offender with a minor) and ran away he still shouldn't have been chasing and throwing things at a guy with a gun, because anyone would think that they're about to get assaulted if someone is chasing you like that. That was the first person who he shot. There's only one assumption that I'm making here, and that's because there's evidence that the guy was being aggressive earlier in the night, so it's not even a baseless one.

The next people 3 were still chasing him and attacking him, and he didn't even shoot the other people until there was a pistol aimed at him and a skateboard slammed against his head, and another tried to stomp on his head while he was on the ground. There's not "a ton of assumptions"

**Belsnickel** · 08-27-2020, 12:44 PM

(08-27-2020, 12:40 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Idk what you're talking about. Everyone who he shot was on video. The first guy was charging him (the guy who was recorded earlier saying "shoot me ni**a") https://twitter.com/Julio_Rosas11/status/1298857915202314240. I'm saying that right there is evidence that he would have started it, and even if Kyle did slap the pedophile (he is actually a registered sex offender with a minor) and ran away he still shouldn't have been chasing and throwing things at a guy with a gun, because anyone would think that they're about to get assaulted if someone is chasing you like that. That was the first person who he shot. There's only one assumption that I'm making here, and that's because there's evidence that the guy was being aggressive earlier in the night, so it's not even a baseless one.

The next people 3 were still chasing him and attacking him, and he didn't even shoot the other people until there was a pistol aimed at him and a skateboard slammed against his head, and another tried to stomp on his head while he was on the ground. There's not "a ton of assumptions"

The others didn't start chasing him until after he shot the first guy. Your assumption of that first victim being the instigator is a huge one, and is what all of this really rests on.

**Brownshoe** · 08-27-2020, 12:52 PM

(08-27-2020, 12:44 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: The others didn't start chasing him until after he shot the first guy. Your assumption of that first victim being the instigator is a huge one, and is what all of this really rests on.

Kyle was running away trying to deescalate the situation. Joseph (the guy who got shot) was chasing him trying to throw things at him to hurt him. Kyle was on the defensive at that point, and Joseph is being the aggressor. Unless something egregious happened before the video started it's obvious that Kyle was on the defensive, and you don't take that into your own hands. There's no evidence that something egregious happened, because if it did then there would be reports about it, and if any reports do come up then I'll change my opinion. Until then I have evidence showing that Joseph was being aggressive towards the militia earlier that night, and he was charging Kyle giving credence to Kyle acting in self defense.

**BmorePat87** · 08-27-2020, 12:52 PM

(08-27-2020, 11:32 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: https://twitter.com/AnonOpsSE/status/1298627537980010504

The guy was clearly trying to attack Kyle. He's charging towards him and throwing things at him, even if it was only a bottle that's obviously aggressive behavior. It's not like he was just standing around. Why try to charge at someone who hasn't shot anyone or committed any crimes? After Kyle shoots him out of self defense he continues to run and continues to be attacked. There's really no other way you can spin that.

Why run after someone with a gun who didn't do anything? Why try to taunt him and throw things at him? When he's clearly trying to retreat and get the hell out of dodge you keep going after him. I don't know what else is going to happen other than that. If someone is willing to do that who knows if they're going to try to wrestle the gun out of your hand to kill you. After that Kyle continues to run away trying to go to the cops. He doesn't shoot anymore and is just still trying to get the hell out of dodge. More people attack him and he again defends himself.

Not every aggressive behavior warrants shooting a man in the head. We don't know what transpired before this, but nothing on video warranted death. This mentality that any and all slights require killing someone is the divide.

As I said, someone who was armed attempted to stop him from fleeing without using his gun, even when he could have just killed him. The killer responded by blowing a chunk out of that guy's arm. That's not spin. He was a killer fleeing the scene of a crime and people tried to stop him without using lethal force when they could have. They wanted to the killing to stop. He responded by using his illegally owned gun to kill again.

**BmorePat87** · 08-27-2020, 12:55 PM

(08-27-2020, 11:35 AM)Nately120 Wrote: In all fairness he does fit the profile of a mass shooter, doesn't he?

young, white, conservative male who loves guns and breaks the law?

Yep.

**Brownshoe** · 08-27-2020, 12:59 PM

(08-27-2020, 12:52 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Not every aggressive behavior warrants shooting a man in the head. We don't know what transpired before this, but nothing on video warranted death. This mentality that any and all slights require killing someone is the divide.

As I said, someone who was armed attempted to stop him from fleeing without using his gun, even when he could have just killed him. The killer responded by blowing a chunk out of that guy's arm. That's not spin. He was a killer fleeing the scene of a crime and people tried to stop him without using lethal force when they could have. They wanted to the killing to stop. He responded by using his illegally owned gun to kill again.

When there has been people beaten almost to death, and some to death there is reason to believe that you're about to be seriously injured. It's not some kind of small slight. Don't chase someone with a gun. Period. Let law enforcement handle that.

You have no idea what the guy was going to do with that pistol (that he had illegally because he committed a felony in the past). He could have easily been trying to kill him because there were gunshots being fired that weren't from Kyle. Kyle was trying to go to the police. You don't try and subdue someone who's trying to go to the police, that's idiotic. They were trying to stomp on his head and they were hitting him with a skateboard in the head. He was clearly defending himself. Let the police handle this kind of stuff, and don't try to be a hero, because that's stupid as hell, especially if he's trying to go to the police.

**BmorePat87** · 08-27-2020, 01:03 PM

(08-27-2020, 12:59 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: When there has been people beaten almost to death, and some to death there is reason to believe that you're about to be seriously injured. It's not some kind of small slight. Don't chase someone with a gun. Period. Let law enforcement handle that.

You have no idea what the guy was going to do with that pistol (that he had illegally because he committed a felony in the past). He could have easily been trying to kill him because there were gunshots being fired that weren't from Kyle. Kyle was trying to go to the police. You don't try and subdue someone who's trying to go to the police, that's idiotic. They were trying to stomp on his head and they were hitting him with a skateboard in the head. He was clearly defending himself. Let the police handle this kind of stuff, and don't try to be a hero, because that's stupid as hell, especially if he's trying to go to the police.

Yea, he might have been trying to kill him, which is why he didn't shoot him at any point when he was 3 feet in front of him...

One of them has been arrested for first degree murder and fleeing the state

Also, they told the cops that he was the killer and the cops let him walk past them while brandishing a weapon. Not one single cop tried to stop the armed guy running away from multiple gunshot victims...

***Nately120*** · 08-27-2020, 01:05 PM

(08-27-2020, 12:59 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: When there has been people beaten almost to death, and some to death there is reason to believe that you're about to be seriously injured. It's not some kind of small slight. Don't chase someone with a gun. Period. Let law enforcement handle that.

You have no idea what the guy was going to do with that pistol (that he had illegally because he committed a felony in the past). He could have easily been trying to kill him because there were gunshots being fired that weren't from Kyle. Kyle was trying to go to the police. You don't try and subdue someone who's trying to go to the police, that's idiotic. They were trying to stomp on his head and they were hitting him with a skateboard in the head. He was clearly defending himself. Let the police handle this kind of stuff, and don't try to be a hero, because that's stupid as hell, especially if he's trying to go to the police.

Hmm, let the police handle this kind of stuff and don't be a hero used to defend someone who took it upon himself to take a firearm to another state to defend other people's property rather than let the police handle it. Wacky.

**Brownshoe** · 08-27-2020, 01:07 PM

(08-27-2020, 01:03 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Yea, he might have been trying to kill him, which is why he didn't shoot him at any point when he was 3 feet in front of him...

One of them has been arrested for first degree murder and fleeing the state

Also, they told the cops that he was the killer and the cops let him walk past them while brandishing a weapon. Not one single cop tried to stop the armed guy running away from multiple gunshot victims...

He was by him for about 3 seconds and he was cowering pretty much the whole time. You have no idea if he would have shot him if he didn't do that.

Yes, I already said the cops should have arrested him.

**Brownshoe** · 08-27-2020, 01:08 PM

(08-27-2020, 01:05 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Hmm, let the police handle this kind of stuff and don't be a hero used to defend someone who took it upon himself to take a firearm to another state to defend other people's property rather than let the police handle it. Wacky.

Yeah, I know. I've been for that the whole time. Wacky.

**BmorePat87** · 08-27-2020, 01:13 PM

(08-27-2020, 01:07 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: He was by him for about 3 seconds and he was cowering pretty much the whole time. You have no idea if he would have shot him if he didn't do that.

Yes, I already said the cops should have arrested him.

Your argument is that we have to assume the worst out of everyone who isn't the killer and that such assumptions justify killing people, but we cannot look at the fact that no one used or threatened to use any lethal force against him.

You saying they should have arrested him is irrelevant when you're arguing after the fact that it would have been best to leave him to the cops when we know for a fact that the cops let him go after seeing him run away armed from gunshot victims as people yelled "he's the shooter".

Some will see justification for killing in every situation. Some don't. It's a difference in how we perceive the world around us. In the meantime, he's facing murder charges.

***Nately120*** · 08-27-2020, 01:14 PM

(08-27-2020, 01:08 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Yeah, I know. I've been for that the whole time. Wacky.

Well I guess that solves that. How's the weather where you live?

**GMDino** · 08-27-2020, 01:18 PM

(08-27-2020, 12:40 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Idk what you're talking about. Everyone who he shot was on video. The first guy was charging him (the guy who was recorded earlier saying "shoot me ni**a") https://twitter.com/Julio_Rosas11/status/1298857915202314240. I'm saying that right there is evidence that he would have started it, and even if Kyle did slap the pedophile (he is actually a registered sex offender with a minor) and ran away he still shouldn't have been chasing and throwing things at a guy with a gun, because anyone would think that they're about to get assaulted if someone is chasing you like that. That was the first person who he shot. There's only one assumption that I'm making here, and that's because there's evidence that the guy was being aggressive earlier in the night, so it's not even a baseless one.

The next people 3 were still chasing him and attacking him, and he didn't even shoot the other people until there was a pistol aimed at him and a skateboard slammed against his head, and another tried to stomp on his head while he was on the ground. There's not "a ton of assumptions"

How for love of all that is good and green did the 17 year wanna be cop/vigilant know that the guy was a pedophile?

You are victim blaming.

The guy shot and killed two people and maimed one.

You can keep ignoring the first one but I'm done with this.

**Brownshoe** · 08-27-2020, 01:25 PM

(08-27-2020, 01:13 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Your argument is that we have to assume the worst out of everyone who isn't the killer and that such assumptions justify killing people, but we cannot look at the fact that no one used or threatened to use any lethal force against him.

You saying they should have arrested him is irrelevant when you're arguing after the fact that it would have been best to leave him to the cops when we know for a fact that the cops let him go after seeing him run away armed from gunshot victims as people yelled "he's the shooter".

Some will see justification for killing in every situation. Some don't. It's a difference in how we perceive the world around us. In the meantime, he's facing murder charges.

No, my argument is that the only thing we see before the video starts is Joseph being aggressive towards the militia. When the video starts Joseph was chasing Kyle. There were gun fires shot, Kyle (being on the defense at the time) turned around and shot Joseph (being on the offense at the time) in the head. There is more than enough reason to believe at the very least serious bodily harm was going to happen to Kyle. After Kyle is running away there are more gunshots going off. You then see Kyle running away and a mob running after him, some attacking him. After getting hit and tripping up Kyle is being assaulted by getting stomped in the head, hit in the head with a skateboard, and a man running up with a pistol drawn. The only choice he has at that point is to defend himself more, shoots and kills one and wounds another. Then he went to the police, who should have arrested him and started an investigation.

There is only one assumption that I'm making and it's not a baseless one because there's evidence of aggression. There were MULTIPLE threats of serious injuries (being chased with multiple other possible aggressive people around) and lethal force (getting hit in the head with a skateboard, stomped on, and a gun pointed at him). You try to say there's no "fact that no one used or threatened to use any lethal force against him" which is untrue.

The best thing that could have happened is that no militia went out and let the police do their job. The second best thing is not to try to attack a guy with a gun who's trying to retreat. The third best thing is to let the cops deal with Kyle shooting the first guy.

**Brownshoe** · 08-27-2020, 01:27 PM

(08-27-2020, 01:18 PM)GMDino Wrote: How for love of all that is good and green did the 17 year wanna be cop/vigilant know that the guy was a pedophile?

You are victim blaming.

The guy shot and killed two people and maimed one.

You can keep ignoring the first one but I'm done with this.

I'm not ignoring anything. Seems like other people are blatantly ignoring things, and making assumptions that there was any kind of altercation before the first video. From all of the evidence Kyle was running away trying to defend himself, everything else is speculation.

***michaelsean*** · 08-27-2020, 01:27 PM

(08-27-2020, 12:55 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: young, white, conservative male who loves guns and breaks the law?

Yep.

Depends on how you define mass shooter.

And number 2 and 3 as far as death counts go were not white.

**GMDino** · 08-27-2020, 01:31 PM

(08-27-2020, 01:27 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: I'm not ignoring anything. Seems like other people are blatantly ignoring things, and making assumptions that there was any kind of altercation before the first video. From all of the evidence Kyle was running away trying to defend himself, everything else is speculation.

I really wish people were not willfully ignorant about these things.

The crowd started after him AFTER he shot a person in a parking lot.

Then he fell and started shooting to "defend himself". Then he stood up and you can hear more gun shots.

The the police rolled right by him while he stood with his hands up while the crowd yelled to the police that he just shot more people. And he went home where he was peacefully detained by the same group who welcomed him to their state...the police.

That is the story.

**Brownshoe** · 08-27-2020, 01:34 PM

(08-27-2020, 01:31 PM)GMDino Wrote: I really wish people were not willfully ignorant about these things.

The crowd started after him AFTER he shot a person in a parking lot.

Then he fell and started shooting to "defend himself". Then he stood up and you can hear more gun shots.

The the police rolled right by him while he stood with his hands up while the crowd yelled to the police that he just shot more people. And he went home where he was peacefully detained by the same group who welcomed him to their state...the police.

That is the story.

Wrong again, and I've already showed the videos proving this wrong multiple times. Do I need to post the video of the first person he shot CHASING him trying to attack him? He was defending himself against the FIRST person too. Please for the love of God stop and look at the evidence. I have legit wrote out play by play of what happened in the videos

**Belsnickel** · 08-27-2020, 01:34 PM

(08-27-2020, 01:27 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: I'm not ignoring anything. Seems like other people are blatantly ignoring things, and making assumptions that there was any kind of altercation before the first video. From all of the evidence Kyle was running away trying to defend himself, everything else is speculation.

I'm not making assumptions. I am saying that these are possible things that are currently unknowns and until they are known, we can't say whether it was self-defense or not.

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