Afghanistan

[Dill]

(08-26-2021, 08:39 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: I partly agree and disagree.

I do agree that women being oppressed and murdered by the Taliban isn't on Biden or Trump. However, I don't agree that it's not on Biden for abandoning our allies and damaging our credibility.

Biden has said that Afghans didn't want to leave Afghanistan. While it's true that there are Afghans who did not want to leave, using such generalized language is dishonest and appears to be a deliberate attempt by the Biden administration to deflect responsibility. This lie that "Afghans didn't want to leave" has been perpetuated and spread amongst the public and further formed as justification for leaving our allies that actually did want to leave. What Biden and his administration fail to mention however, is the issues that came with trying to actually leave Afghanistan such as VISA processing issues, financial issues, limited flights etc...

The truth is, there are many who wanted to leave, but they did not all have the same opportunity or ability to do so.

A good post, Matt. I will deal with this part at the moment, other parts later.

1. Abandoning our allies--we aren't abandoning ALL of them. E.g., thousands of Afghans have made it out thanks to US and NATO efforts. But it was impossible to accomdate all their at risk relatives. That was always going to be the case if we withdrew. Also, the Germans and Brits are angry because the pullout was decided unilaterally, without consultation. After dragging our NATO allies to Afghanistan, we decided "hey, we've had enough." Since 2017 we've become a very uncertain ally, subject to whims of fickle presidents and public. We may have forgotten the trashed Iran Deal and disastrous Syria pullout, but our Allies through Europe and the Middle East have not.

2. Agree. It was stupid of Biden to say Afghans didn't want to leave. Sure, some didn't, e.g., the Taliban. It was plain that many did.

But I haven't seen evidence this "lie" has been perpetuated and spread anywhere. I have been traveling, often without internet and news access, so maybe you are aware of something I am not. 

I am still examining the process as best I can with intermittent internet and news access. Critical for what we are discussing is what was going on a year ago. What was in place to AFTER the Doha Agreement to prepare for the withdrawal of some 20,000 US affiliated refugees. I am thinking there must have been some resistance to this within the Trump administration (what would Stephen Miller say about thousands of brown Muslims dropped on our doorstep?). Though I don't have reason to believe Pompeo would balk at saving those who risked it all for Americans. Were Trump's people already moving hundreds or thousands to safety?  Think I'll go check on that now.