08-29-2021, 11:27 AM
Quote:1. Abandoning our allies--we aren't abandoning ALL of them. E.g., thousands of Afghans have made it out thanks to US and NATO efforts. But it was impossible to accomdate all their at risk relatives. That was always going to be the case if we withdrew. Also, the Germans and Brits are angry because the pullout was decided unilaterally, without consultation. After dragging our NATO allies to Afghanistan, we decided "hey, we've had enough." Since 2017 we've become a very uncertain ally, subject to whims of fickle presidents and public. We may have forgotten the trashed Iran Deal and disastrous Syria pullout, but our Allies through Europe and the Middle East have not.
I agree with you there. We didn't abandon everyone, and I didn't mean that, but I understand how it could be taken that way. It would be better to say that we didn't do our best to ensure that we got our allies out before we started evacuating our troops.
You make the point that it was impossible to accommodate all their at risk relatives, but I believe that is based upon which position one wishes to take regarding the withdrawal. If you take the position that risking American lives is not worth getting everyone out that we "should" have gotten out, then yes, I'd think you can make the argument that getting everyone out would be extremely difficult based specifically on that position. But if you're coming from the position that risking American lives is worth getting "everyone" out, then you can argue that it wouldn't have been impossible.
My point being, what the argument of "leaving our allies behind" really boils down to is how much do we value preserving the lives of our American troops vs upholding responsibility to save those whom we've allied ourselves with. Now I'm not saying weighing the value of American troops lives vs our allies is an easy decision to make, but the truth is if we really wanted to get "everyone" out, then we could have stayed until we got them out, but that would most likely have cost more American lives, which is the core issue here in my opinion and not necessarily the probability of success. That probability is majorly dependent on what position you take regarding the value of American troops lives vs our allies.
Quote:2. Agree. It was stupid of Biden to say Afghans didn't want to leave. Sure, some didn't, e.g., the Taliban. It was plain that many did.
But I haven't seen evidence this "lie" has been perpetuated and spread anywhere. I have been traveling, often without internet and news access, so maybe you are aware of something I am not.
I am still examining the process as best I can with intermittent internet and news access. Critical for what we are discussing is what was going on a year ago. What was in place to AFTER the Doha Agreement to prepare for the withdrawal of some 20,000 US affiliated refugees. I am thinking there must have been some resistance to this within the Trump administration (what would Stephen Miller say about thousands of brown Muslims dropped on our doorstep?). Though I don't have reason to believe Pompeo would balk at saving those who risked it all for Americans. Were Trump's people already moving hundreds or thousands to safety? Think I'll go check on that now.
Well in terms of perpetuation and spreading lies, I was talking about how this view has been perpetuated and spread amongst the public itself and not necessarily by the Biden Administration or the media. On the contrary, the media did the right thing in this instance and actually challenged Biden and his administration when they first introduced this as a talking point and the Biden administration, to save face, has deceptively pivoted from "Afghan's didn't want to leave" to arguing "Well we told everyone we were going to leave", insinuating that everyone had time to leave if they really wanted, which is essentially the same argument but with even more deflection added in.
Regarding whether or not there was resistance within the Trump administration concerning refugees, I think that's a good question and not one I'd say I'm fully informed on. I think going back to what you said earlier about bringing back their relatives complicates this even further and certainly makes for an interesting discussion.
