06-27-2022, 09:30 AM
(06-27-2022, 07:53 AM)BoomerFan Wrote: I don't support what the SCOTUS has done and think the argument of trying to make better law is undercut by some of Justice Thomas's comments but your argument has two major failings. One, you've created a false dichotomy. There can still be civil liberties despite this ruling even in states that will/have outlawed abortion. And two, the opposition's argument is that there can be neither freedom nor liberty for all if human children are being murdered. Do I personally believe life begins at conception? No I think we're talking about a bunch of cells. It might be difficult to say exactly where the line is that those cells can feel something to the point we have some moral obligation to them but the third trimester makes sense.
The problem with the 9th is people will claim that anything is a right. Or you have to resolve issues of two rights at odds with each other. I would say there is a natural right to privacy, but right is limited by others' right to live. States can and do make laws regarding things that might be natural rights if they aren't codified in the constitution as interpreted by the SCOTUS.
I am with you on your reading of the 2nd though.
I will also say, I am disgusted by message boards (specifically parts of reddit) where people are openly endorsing a violent response to this ruling (and the mods do nothing). I mean, it is predictable that this would only inflame the culture war but still it is toxic and childish and of course someone innocent will end up being harmed. That's how it is with all wars.
It is also worth noting that this isn't the 1970s anymore. There are a lot of forms of birth control, many less intrusive than at that time. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of abortions (as a percentage of population) is declining anyways.
If one does not have autonomy over one's own body then nothing else matters. You are not a free person...your body belongs to somebody else. I keep hearing about the rights of a child but nothing about the rights of the woman. Its like she suddenly doesn't matter once she is pregnant even if that pregnancy is against her will or desire.
Abortion rates have fallen steadily since about 1983. They fall faster during Democratic presidencies, probably because the economy has been better during those times. 2 things have big impact on pregnancy rates...comprehensive school-based sex education that goes beyond abstinance and easy access to a variety of birth control methods. Keep in mind that the same right-wing that wanted Roe-v-Wade overturned is going after sex education because they believe parents should do it. Most parents do a lousy job of it. They underestimate the power of teenage hormones. They can teach morality...let educators deal with the facts. They are also going after several forms of birth control including the very effective IUD and the day-after pill. They believe that even preventing the implantation of a zygote is abortion.
As I said earlier, abortion will never ever be legislated out of existence. What they are legislated is the elimination of safe abortions for women who don't have the money or ability to travel. 78% of single mothers already live in poverty. That number will grow. The number of children in poverty will grow exponentially. Only 43% of women actually receive child support and even that is often inadequate. Women will be leaving the workforce because of too expensive or unavailable child care.
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