ISIS

[*bfine32*]

(11-10-2016, 02:17 PM)hollodero Wrote: But do they? Fight for "liberty" I mean. At this point, they sure believe it (I hope, otherwise you just cultivate cynicism), they might even help selected people (geographically selected people) in ways you described so enthusiastically. But in the end, every recent intervention resulted in more death and destruction then there was before.
Thoughts like that are nice, but if the strategy is failing, there is no good outcome in the bigger picture, not more people saved, but more killed with even more gruesome regimes. I agree with the sentiment above. Either you put in even much much more troops and finances and effort and all that, and are willing to sustain that effort for decades, or you let it be completely. Doing the first thing is politically impossible, and there would still be no guarantee of any success. But half-hearted attempts, connected with the belief all somehow will sort out quickly and the people will come around (which they don't) does more harm than good, and I'd say that's a fair summary of all recent US interventions. 

And talking about terror threats alone. The less you are actively involved, the less new hatred towards the western world will accumulate. Yeah, they hate each other instead, they kill each other instead, and as awful and gruesome as that is, maybe it's just the point that Islamic history has reached right now. What unites them is just hating the US, and that bond is not one you want to strengthen.

Of course they fight for liberty (individual and collective). Our biggest issue is not establishing a long term presence after we win on the ground. Hell we still have Troops at permanent bases in italy, germany, and Japan and WWII was about 80 years ago.