And they try again...

[hollodero]

(01-25-2017, 07:22 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: This is how the semantics arguments misuse science . . .

1 The quote says "new individual," not new life.

2 Again, "new individual"

3 Not entirely true.  The sperm and ovum DNA don't combine "precisely at the moment when the sperm combines with the egg." As I've already indicated the DNA from the pronuclei of the gametes don't combine for approximately 23 hours later.

4 Some sources indicate conception is an imprecise term and should be avoided.  

5 Look at the first two quotes, they say new individual not new life.  So when James C. G. Conniff writes "scientists generally agree, a new life begins" does he mean "new individual" and used "new life" because he misunderstood what scientists generally agree upon?


Let me try to explain it differently.  Think of life as an inheritable trait like eye color.  You inherit eye color genes from both gametes.  You inherit life from both gametes.  Unless one or both gametes is dead in which case a new individual isn't formed.  Some chromosomal abnormalities are incompatible with life.  It is believed chromosomal abnormalities are the most common cause of spontaneous abortions.  Well, if one of the gametes is dead that's a pretty serious chromosomal abnormality.

Yeah well, I think I get some of it. It seems rather vague the one way or the other, and the more I learn the more vague it gets. Which, yes, is your point.
I suppose vagueness won't really help your cause though. See point 3, 23 hours up or down don't do much... if there is a political will to proceed as feared, science won't probably really help you. Even though you make some solid points (I guess).
If I had known you have expertise, I wouldn't have been so restive :) I don't, but usually no one has, so I tend to get through :)

Keeping this Roe v. Wade verdict up probably is the more promising way than a semantic science debate. Thanks for the links, I think I saw through it somehow. Basically, it's first trimester with wiggle room from state to state. If I extracted the information correctly.

Here's to Pence not coming through on that one. Cheers.