Goebbels strikes again

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-12-2017, 09:45 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 1. Marv should've been fired after the Chargers loss. That was my take, and I'd say the majority was in the same boat with me. Including media. You have to consider his entire track record when making decisions. At the time, Marv was 0-5 in the playoffs. The prime time record was (and still is) abysmal. This offsets the overall regular season success, which isn't exactly all that in the first place. Then, after all this history of choking in big moments, he lays the biggest choke job of all. Taking a team that was 8-0 at home and losing in thoroughly convincing fashion to a team they'd beaten on the road just a few weeks prior. Fwiw, I would've also fired him after the complete lack of discipline in the 2015 playoff game, and last year's debacle. Marv has earned a pink slip 5 times now, IMO. 2008, 2010, 2013, 2015 and 2016.

2. Even in 2009, the Bengals ranked worse than 20th in yards per carry, and that was with an extra tackle, which hurt our versatility on offense. Which in turn probably didn't help Palmer's cause. The run game has ranked 20th or worse in YPC in every season since 2006...outside of a fluke season (2014). Alexander has been the one constant during that span. Pass blocking has been slightly above average by numbers, with the exception of 2012 and 2016. That said, Bodine and Ogbuehi were hand picked by PA and have been disasters. I know in my heart that a different team would've most certainly fired Paul for 2016 alone. It was that damn bad.

3. We went through this on the old boards, but the Steelers facility is nothing like the arrangement with UC. The Steelers have their own field, cafeteria, weight room and even a team library within the facility. They aren't sharing anything other than the roof. The Bengals have to get clearance each time and have no access to an NFL weight room or facilities while there. That's partly why they rarely use it.

4. I get it from years of paying attention. Look at the contracts of any Bengals player that has been resigned. The guaranteed money is low compared to their peers. For example, Andy Dalton's guaranteed money is laughably low compared to his peers. The Bengals do make up for it by being overly loyal, but that in itself hurts the team.

5. Everyone should be accountable. Unfortunately when the owner is the GM and a terrible one at that, the lack of accountability has already started at the top. Marv said himself that he wouldn't have kept himself around if he were the owner. He was half joking (I think), but it was still a sad statement. But yeah...accountability isn't complicated. If the results aren't there, you find out why and address the issue. This season it was mainly the o-line. As you can see, Paul is still here and Mike defends him. No accountability.

6. No disrespect, but it blows my mind that you think firing Marv or Paul would qualify as knee jerk. Marv has set records for playoff futility that wouldn't be possible without extreme patience and longevity. 15 years in one spot with 0 playoff wins puts Marv in a class all by himself. Alexander has been around since Dave Klinger for Pete's sake. How many years do you need to see before you think there's enough evidence to make a move? Does Marv need to be 0-15 in the playoffs? Maybe 4 losing seasons in a row? Maybe waste the primes of 2 exceptional core groups of players? You have amazing patience...Which I guess is why you side with Mike Brown. Personally, I'd like to see a playoff run before I'm in a nursing home.
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I don't "hate" you for your point of view, but I don't understand your optimism given the wealth of history that would indicate that optimism is unwarranted. Marv and co can't even sniff a playoff win, let alone a championship. I wish a single draft could fix that, but we haven't had many impact players lately and I don't think those impact players would still be impact in a playoff game. Look at the playoff performance of Geno, Green, Dalton, Gio, Dunlap, etc for proof.

1.) I agreed that there were times Marvin should have been let go....mine was after the SD playoff loss, but I also said I understand why Brown wants Marvin to have the opportunity to finish the job.  I wouldn't extend him.  I sure hope they don't.  This is the season where it is an absolute no-excuses for me...either you make a playoff run or you are gone.  If he is gone, who replaces him?  My guess is Guenther, and I have mixed feelings about that.  

2.) I can't stand PA either, but there are those with very different opinions of him than we have...and he does have a track record with some success.  I just hate their blocking schemes...as Lapham has stated before, line up and pound the guy in front of you!  Bodine's one supposed strength is at the point of attack, but he isn't as good on the move.  Ogbuehi gets stood up by TEs...which shows he is VERY weak in his base.  I don't think you can coach that in to him.  At least Fisher seems to be panning out....I think Ced will just be relegated to the extra TE role...Truth is, we don't know where the call to leave him out there came from...Coach, OC, PA?  It sure wasn't Mike Brown. 

3.) The indoor practice facility is just that...an indoor practice facility.  They have everything else you mentioned at Paul Brown, including a small area for indoor walk throughs...they also have expanded the weight room and upgraded the cafeteria since the original opening.  I still wish they had their own, right next to the stadium or at least spent more time indoors in the winter.  

4.) This is where I disagree with you the most.  Dalton's contract was authored and agreed upon when a lot of people weren't quite sure if he was "the guy" or not.  They made a good bet, because Dalton has far outplayed his contract.  When it comes to other players contracts, the guaranteed money is right in line with other team's deals and the Bengals are likely the only team that honors most of them throughout their time frame.  If you get drafted here, play well here, they pay you VERY WELL here...and don't look to break the deal at the first sign of injury or the player not playing up to expectation.  I applaud them for taking care of their players as they do...although it really bothers me that they have kept Adam Jones thus far.  

5.) The accountability isn't there for lack of performance, this is true.  Nugent is beloved in the organization and should have been shown the door LONG before he was eventually let go...they were hoping he would kick his way out of it, but they ultimately lost their season by waiting.  Very frustrating.  I don't know if I would fire PA based on Ced O if he wasn't the one that kept rolling him out there.  But his development of Ced has been a zero thus far.  Boling has been a very good player, drafted in the fourth round...so he deserves credit there.  Fisher looked terrible in year 1, but looks to have grasped the starters role at RT, so he deserves credit there.  But the accountability you speak of permeates the team because of Marv's stubborn approach to giving a guy like Sexy a shot when Hill looks awful, to play Vigil over a worthless Dansby, to play Clarke or Hunt instead of the plodding MJ....He always claims they need to show it in practice.  I get what he is saying but the starter shouldn't be left in a game where they are struggling....that shows a complete lack of accountability and I can't stand it.

6.) When you look at the entirety of Marv's tenure, I can see where you would take the approach of carrying the weight of seven post season failures.  I choose not to look at the past, but right now.  What happened this year?  Why?  How much of it was the responsibility of the HC?  Should he have lost his job because:

-the kicker couldn't hit anything but the post
-the second year RT couldn't block Marge Schott from getting a pack of smokes at the gas station
-the TE was injured in the Pro Bowl, and missed nearly half the season
-the star WR was injured and missed the last four games
-Zampese was a turd as an OC

These are the fault of ownership, except for the injuries to Eifert and AJ.  I look at this next season as make or break for the Bengals for so many reasons....I would have done the same thing as Brown because I think Marv gives us the best chance to win THIS YEAR.  If he doesn't make a run in the playoffs, I would start anew.  I really want a Super Bowl win, too.  I would really love to see Marvin do it, and then retire.  It would be a perfect ending as he took a team from the scrap heap to the top...in 15 years