Goebbels strikes again

[Shake n Blake]

(02-13-2017, 09:26 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: 1.) I agreed that there were times Marvin should have been let go....mine was after the SD playoff loss, but I also said I understand why Brown wants Marvin to have the opportunity to finish the job.  I wouldn't extend him.  I sure hope they don't.  This is the season where it is an absolute no-excuses for me...either you make a playoff run or you are gone.  If he is gone, who replaces him?  My guess is Guenther, and I have mixed feelings about that.  

2.) I can't stand PA either, but there are those with very different opinions of him than we have...and he does have a track record with some success.  I just hate their blocking schemes...as Lapham has stated before, line up and pound the guy in front of you!  Bodine's one supposed strength is at the point of attack, but he isn't as good on the move.  Ogbuehi gets stood up by TEs...which shows he is VERY weak in his base.  I don't think you can coach that in to him.  At least Fisher seems to be panning out....I think Ced will just be relegated to the extra TE role...Truth is, we don't know where the call to leave him out there came from...Coach, OC, PA?  It sure wasn't Mike Brown. 

3.) The indoor practice facility is just that...an indoor practice facility.  They have everything else you mentioned at Paul Brown, including a small area for indoor walk throughs...they also have expanded the weight room and upgraded the cafeteria since the original opening.  I still wish they had their own, right next to the stadium or at least spent more time indoors in the winter.  

4.) This is where I disagree with you the most.  Dalton's contract was authored and agreed upon when a lot of people weren't quite sure if he was "the guy" or not.  They made a good bet, because Dalton has far outplayed his contract.  When it comes to other players contracts, the guaranteed money is right in line with other team's deals and the Bengals are likely the only team that honors most of them throughout their time frame.  If you get drafted here, play well here, they pay you VERY WELL here...and don't look to break the deal at the first sign of injury or the player not playing up to expectation.  I applaud them for taking care of their players as they do...although it really bothers me that they have kept Adam Jones thus far.  

5.) The accountability isn't there for lack of performance, this is true.  Nugent is beloved in the organization and should have been shown the door LONG before he was eventually let go...they were hoping he would kick his way out of it, but they ultimately lost their season by waiting.  Very frustrating.  I don't know if I would fire PA based on Ced O if he wasn't the one that kept rolling him out there.  But his development of Ced has been a zero thus far.  Boling has been a very good player, drafted in the fourth round...so he deserves credit there.  Fisher looked terrible in year 1, but looks to have grasped the starters role at RT, so he deserves credit there.  But the accountability you speak of permeates the team because of Marv's stubborn approach to giving a guy like Sexy a shot when Hill looks awful, to play Vigil over a worthless Dansby, to play Clarke or Hunt instead of the plodding MJ....He always claims they need to show it in practice.  I get what he is saying but the starter shouldn't be left in a game where they are struggling....that shows a complete lack of accountability and I can't stand it.

6.) When you look at the entirety of Marv's tenure, I can see where you would take the approach of carrying the weight of seven post season failures.  I choose not to look at the past, but right now.  What happened this year?  Why?  How much of it was the responsibility of the HC?  Should he have lost his job because:

-the kicker couldn't hit anything but the post
-the second year RT couldn't block Marge Schott from getting a pack of smokes at the gas station
-the TE was injured in the Pro Bowl, and missed nearly half the season
-the star WR was injured and missed the last four games
-Zampese was a turd as an OC

These are the fault of ownership, except for the injuries to Eifert and AJ.  I look at this next season as make or break for the Bengals for so many reasons....I would have done the same thing as Brown because I think Marv gives us the best chance to win THIS YEAR.  If he doesn't make a run in the playoffs, I would start anew.  I really want a Super Bowl win, too.  I would really love to see Marvin do it, and then retire.  It would be a perfect ending as he took a team from the scrap heap to the top...in 15 years

1. Why is this the "no excuse" year for you? Genuinely curious,no snark intended. I reached that point with Marv several years ago. Patience in the NFL isn't supposed to last 15 years unless the coach has earned it. 0 playoff wins isn't earning anything, IMO.

2. I just disagree on PA's success. Overall, he's been mediocre at best (I'd argue worse, considering the rushing numbers of the last decade+). Last season was a complete disaster and he's directly responsible for the failures of 2 high draft picks that were used on players he wanted. Most NFL teams would fire a coach for last season alone, and I don't think PA has earned benefit of the doubt.

3. People shrug about the practice facility, but there's good reason why every team has one outside of the Bengals. We've had players get sick before playoff games, including Dalton getting the flu once after practicing in the snow all week. We've had players including Whit mention that it's tough to install a precise game plan in the elements.

4. If you don't like the Dalton example, then how about AJ Green? His closest peers that all signed recent contracts all got a much higher % of guaranteed money:

Green: 4 years, 60 million, 32.75 m guaranteed (55% guaranteed)
Julio: 5 years, 71 million, 47.0 m guaranteed (66%)
Dez: 5 years, 70 million, 45.0 m guaranteed (64%)
D.Thomas: 5 years, 70 million, 43.5 guaranteed (62%)

All these players signed over the same summer and AJ got his contract last. The Bengals still got AJ to sign for less guaranteed than any of his peers. It's like this with pretty much all "homegrown" Bengals players, and it's also usually true of their FA forays. Fortunately, players prefer staying in places where they've had success and laid roots, so guys like Green aren't likely to leave for a few million extra guaranteed. It's tough to sign free agents that way though, and that's why I believe the Bengals approach FA the way they do. The loyalty they give in exchange for less guaranteed money does hurt the team when we keep guys like Leon Hall for $9 million, or Peko for $5 for example. We could use that money on FA's to help boost the team...but again they don't like giving much guaranteed, so they can't really sign anyone of note. Agh!

5. Agreed, and good point on sticking with vets for too long. Again, I think the loyalty they have to overpriced vets hurts the team. That all traces back to Mike Brown and how he likes to operate.

6. If you never look at the past with Marv, then why is 2017 a "no excuses" year for you? Ultimately, Marv is responsible for his roster and coaches underneath him.

- Nugent? Should've been replaced during his disastrous preseason or sometime before week 14.
- Either Marv or PA should be held responsible for Og. Probably both.
- There was plenty of advance notice that Eifert would miss significant time. Should've been ready.
- It was actually 7 games missed for AJ, but we were 3-5-1 when he went down.
- Surely Marv had input on hiring Zampese.

Marv is only beneath Mike in chain of command. Ultimately he's responsible for every bit of success or failure. Every time a team fails, there's going to be a laundry list of reasons why. The thing is, good coaches usually don't have as many problems because they're good at handling rosters, issues, or just making sure the team is good enough to overcome. If I wanted to, I could defend Rex Ryan with a similar list with the Bills. Ultimately, good coaches just win. Including in the playoffs.

I'd love to see a fairy tale ending for Marv (and the fans). I don't hate the man. I just don't see any reasons to have confidence in him. Too much evidence that he's a choker who coaches players that choke.