I was wrong about...

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-15-2017, 11:58 AM)ochocincos Wrote: That's fair, but when looking at top 15 QBs, there are definitely 10 better than Dalton, and there are about 4-5 others that are young and some people already consider them ahead of Dalton. My argument against the youngsters was I need to see more than 3 seasons to determine they are better, but it's hard to defend Dalton now as a top 15 QB when he's performed so poorly.

QBs definitely ahead of him:
Brady
Brees
Rodgers
Roethlisberger
Wilson
Luck
Ryan
Rivers
Newton
Stafford

At this point, Alex Smith and Sam Bradford are showing they can be as good or better than Dalton when they have OL and some weapons. Carr, Winston, Mariota, and even Prescott have been very good in their short NFL careers.

It's impossible to determine which QBs outside of Brady, Rodgers, and Brees that would perform as poorly or even worse than Dalton with the exact same offense. All I know is Dalton looks terrible without having a good line, and he's looked below average when not having at least three very good weapons available.

Lolololol...

Newton in 2016:
52.9% completion, 3,500 yards, 6.9 YPA, 19 TD/14 INT, 75.8 QB Rating

Wilson in 2017 Week 1:
51.9% completion, 158 yards, 5.9 YPA, 0 TD/0 INT, 69.7 QB Rating, 1 FL

Stafford had a ZERO WIN SEASON when he didn't have a good supporting staff.

Phillip Rivers had a HoF RB (LT), borderline-HoF FB (Neal),  HoF TE (Gates), and 4 different Pro Bowl OL in his career. Look at the guy carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders!

Luck's career is statistically worse than Dalton, and hasn't had to deal with Ken Zampese, while they surround him with a HoF WR (Reggie Wayne), HoF RB (Gore), and of their last 10 first round picks not named Luck they spent 4 on OL, 1 on RB, 2 on WR.

Roethlisberger won his first SB with the worst winning QB Rating in SB HISTORY. He has had 5 different Pro Bowl OL (4 of them All-Pros) in his career, plus a HoF RB (Bettis), the league's best WR (Brown), arguably the league's best RB (Bell), one of the league's best possession WRs (Ward), and the eternal sucking off of all the league's officials and refs.

Drew Brees wasn't Drew Brees for the Chargers. He became who he was under Sean Payton. The year Payton got suspended? His QB Rating dropped 14.4 points from the year before, with his completion % dropping to the lowest it's ever been with the Saints.

EDIT:
You also mentioned Alex Smith (surrounded by better talent), Sam Bradford (they focused heavily on a better OL), Carr (better talent AND OL), Winston (swamped by 1st round talent around him), Mariota (they focused heavily on getting him a good running game and OL), and Prescott has Elliott and like 4 All-Pro OL around him, and a HoF TE.

All you're listing is QBs whose teams successfully surrounded them with good talent, good OL, and good coaching. NONE of them are in a Ogbuehi/Bodine/Zampese situation.

- - - - - - - - - - --
I'm not saying some of these QBs aren't better than Dalton, but if you think Brady, Rodgers, and Brees, would be themselves behind Ogbuehi and Bodine, while running Ken Zampese's offense, you're kidding yourself.

Coaching makes a HUGE difference, and a great OL makes a huge difference. Romo's QB Rating jumped 16.5 when he got g good OL. Alex Smith and Colin Kapernick took the 49ers to the SB when Jim Harbaugh coached them. The 49ers won 7 games in the 2 years since he left.

Just remember this:
Tom Brady 2013 vs Bengals put up 47.4% completion, 197 yards, 5.2 YPA, 0 TD/1 INT, 52.2 QB Rating. His OL was awful that year and the Bengals DL was in his face all game. He finished with an 87.3 QB Rating that year. That was WITH good coaching. Imagine him that season with Marvin Lewis and Ken Zampese instead of Bill Belichick and Josh McDaniels.