Obama Shames Voters

[hollodero]

(10-01-2017, 09:38 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: Sorry Dill/Hollo, but I didn't find a point here I could really agree with.

For starters I am not generalizing Trumps comments to the point that they have no content. Rather, I am asking you to show me how the content of his insults absolutely show that he is a misogynist.

It was never my intent to do so. I tried avoiding to say he absolutely is a misogynist and that this were undisputable to me. There's points to be found for both sides here. This, to me, is a grey area, and clear-cut misogynism only is the extreme on the scale. That Trump is associated with the more extreme side on the scale is on him and his past behaviour, not on Michelle Obama. This is quite undisputable to me, not that calling him a misogynist is the correct way to go.

I seriously questioned the importance of that question. And I still seriously doubt that debating the term misogynist at nauseum really is meaningful. In the end it's about taking issue with Michelle Obama. I would pledge for not caring too much about Michelle Obama in the first place, but here we are, debating terms.

You make a list about Trump's insults to prove your point... which is fair enough, I got what you wanted to prove, but the only thing I could really think of was "how could that guy make this remarkable list of Trump insults in an effort to show that calling him a misogynist was wrong... and somehow not lose his shit about the thing Trump does wrong on this list and forget all about that in the process." The irony is so astonishing to me, I can only explain that with the US's very special political landscape and who'd you have to agree with then. And I do know it's not fair to just keep falling back to that thought and put people in these boxes to sort things out, but I can't quite help it.

Having said that, your remarks drew a very clear picture about your thoughts on that matter. I could disagree in slighter degrees with some of your points and conclusions, but in the end the results of such a debate wouldn't really justiy the effort, and overall your point is well taken. I do remain on the position that Trump is close enough to be misogynistic that he really cannot complain too much about that word. (As soon as you brag about just walking into women's locker rooms unannounced, people will judge you and it's on you. And with Trump this is just the top molecule of the tip of the iceberg.) But I can follow your reasoning to a broad extent. What one might see as misogyny might really be a mere byproduct of another serious character flaw that in itself doesn't mean as much as misogyny.

Sadly I don't think that really makes matters any better - or Michelle Obama wrong.

(10-01-2017, 09:38 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: Before I continue with this discussion I would like to make one important point here, and this is addressed to you as well hollodero. Just because I don't believe Trump is a misogynist does not mean I think he is a good guy, as you (Dill) seemed to make that comment in your follow up post to hollodero as an indirect reference to me. In addition to that, just because I am defending Trump does not mean I am a conservative, nor does it mean that I am trying to preserve some type of conservative ideology to defend against liberals at all costs.

I wouldn't have said "at all costs", and I didn't want to appear disrespectful. That assumption would be.
At some cost, however... :) Turning the debate into a terminology debate that usually never ends and slowly dissipates the initial Trump flaw are, in my experience, a frequently used conservative conversation technique to deflect from the fact that Trump's behaviour is getting more and more uncomfortable to minimize and explain and put in context or defend in any other way.
But now I come to believe your picture of Trump is quite similar to mine... so I might have been wrong about that one. You remain a mystery :)