01-04-2019, 12:45 PM
As one of the center-left liberals on the board, I'll answer from my point of view.
1. Does this mean inside or outside of the country? Inside of the country, I find the culture of some people to be offensive simply because I don't like nationalism. Outside of the country, many other folks also see our culture as nationalistic, and that has been a problematic position in history. They also see us as unnecessarily arrogant, especially when it comes to the benefits (getting to the latter part of that) where we have a higher infant mortality rate, lower life expediencies, greater socioeconomic disparity, and other things that point to our citizenry not actually receiving benefits at the same level as other WEIRD nations.
2. Need based aid is available for U.S. citizens as well that prevents them from having to pay for their education. It isn't as much as is required to make up for the rising costs of education that have outpaced inflation for years, and part of that is because of governments not helping to pay for their people to go to college. Higher education used to be subsidized by the states at a much higher percentage, but not any longer. Of course, all of the federal aid (and much of the state and institutional aid, as well because it requires filing a FAFSA) is not available to an undocumented immigrant. So there are some programs designed for those students to offset costs like the programs available for citizens.
3. This isn't an "only in America" thing. Also, Benton covered this how I would've. I'm not retyping his response.
4. I've legitimately never heard a liberal say that. But, to be fair, I am also a part of the Rural Democrats caucus here which is a bunch of liberal rednecks who like to go hunting and fishing. As for the overall point, I would disagree with that premise entirely. But that is more because I'm a technocrat and so I look at policy in a different way than most. That one life saved by deporting all undocumented immigrants could have caused several hundred others to die because of the funding used to deport the immigrants being funneled from other, more critical, programs. What if the money came from infrastructure, and a bridge that needed repairs collapsed during rush hour? What if an airport runway was in disrepair and caused a loaded international flight to crash upon landing? Those have to be calculated in, as well.
5. Loving your country but being ashamed/embarrassed/scared of the current conditions there is completely normal. It's what many people are dealing with right now here in the US.
6. The founding fathers only expected the Constitution to last one, maybe two generations. I can't remember if it was Madison or Jefferson that discussed this in his writings. They knew that the document they crafted, the government they formed, was one that would need to change with the times. That understanding is what made what they did so great.
7. That is too broad of a statement and doesn't represent the views of the party. As Pat pointed out, that was 60 years ago. The party itself is a centrist party, having abandoned the principals of the New Deal that made it a powerhouse and likely caused the criticisms he levied.
8. That is not at all what the new American Dream is. The American Dream is still defined as it once was. The problem is that the American Dream is now almost unattainable and becomes more difficult each year.
1. Does this mean inside or outside of the country? Inside of the country, I find the culture of some people to be offensive simply because I don't like nationalism. Outside of the country, many other folks also see our culture as nationalistic, and that has been a problematic position in history. They also see us as unnecessarily arrogant, especially when it comes to the benefits (getting to the latter part of that) where we have a higher infant mortality rate, lower life expediencies, greater socioeconomic disparity, and other things that point to our citizenry not actually receiving benefits at the same level as other WEIRD nations.
2. Need based aid is available for U.S. citizens as well that prevents them from having to pay for their education. It isn't as much as is required to make up for the rising costs of education that have outpaced inflation for years, and part of that is because of governments not helping to pay for their people to go to college. Higher education used to be subsidized by the states at a much higher percentage, but not any longer. Of course, all of the federal aid (and much of the state and institutional aid, as well because it requires filing a FAFSA) is not available to an undocumented immigrant. So there are some programs designed for those students to offset costs like the programs available for citizens.
3. This isn't an "only in America" thing. Also, Benton covered this how I would've. I'm not retyping his response.
4. I've legitimately never heard a liberal say that. But, to be fair, I am also a part of the Rural Democrats caucus here which is a bunch of liberal rednecks who like to go hunting and fishing. As for the overall point, I would disagree with that premise entirely. But that is more because I'm a technocrat and so I look at policy in a different way than most. That one life saved by deporting all undocumented immigrants could have caused several hundred others to die because of the funding used to deport the immigrants being funneled from other, more critical, programs. What if the money came from infrastructure, and a bridge that needed repairs collapsed during rush hour? What if an airport runway was in disrepair and caused a loaded international flight to crash upon landing? Those have to be calculated in, as well.
5. Loving your country but being ashamed/embarrassed/scared of the current conditions there is completely normal. It's what many people are dealing with right now here in the US.
6. The founding fathers only expected the Constitution to last one, maybe two generations. I can't remember if it was Madison or Jefferson that discussed this in his writings. They knew that the document they crafted, the government they formed, was one that would need to change with the times. That understanding is what made what they did so great.
7. That is too broad of a statement and doesn't represent the views of the party. As Pat pointed out, that was 60 years ago. The party itself is a centrist party, having abandoned the principals of the New Deal that made it a powerhouse and likely caused the criticisms he levied.
8. That is not at all what the new American Dream is. The American Dream is still defined as it once was. The problem is that the American Dream is now almost unattainable and becomes more difficult each year.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
