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Do you believe; and why?
(05-22-2019, 03:02 PM)Lucidus Wrote: As to the rain example: 

I was attempting to demonstrate the difference in certain knowledge and justified belief, or lack thereof. 

I must been agnostic in terms of whether I know for sure that it will rain tomorrow because I lack certain knowledge that it will.

However, I can have a justifiable "belief" that it will rain tomorrow based on evidence based conclusions.

You are correct that my view posits that no claim can be proven to be 100% false. However, it does not automatically follow that that any one of all possible claims can in fact be true. 

Stating that no instance of X can be proven impossible, does not state that any possible instance of X is true. 

My interest is more in terms of what is most reasonable and justified to believe in the absence of 100% certainty. In the case of God, my position is to say that we can't currently know, and may never be able to know, if a God actually exists or not. If I accept that I can't know with 100% certainty, then I must decide if I have a solid justification and reasoning process to believe in God, without said certainty. If I can't do so, then I can't actively believe in God, but it doesn't necessarily follow that I believe there is no God.

I feel we must admit that we can't know things with 100% certainty. Once we accept that reality, we must then rely on as many evidences and demonstrable proofs as possible in order to formulate active beliefs. If we don't have those available as proper justification, I think we should avoid actively believing something until which time there is reason to reasonably cause such belief.

I can't establish that gravity is 100% real. However, it seems to be demonstrable, repeatable and predictable in a way that suggest it's rationale and justifiable to believe it is extremely likely to be real. 

On the other hand, I can't establish with 100% certainty that Trump is not a great, moral, empathetic human being somewhere deep inside. However, based on his words, actions and behaviors, there would certainly seem to be evidence and reasonable justification to think that it's extremely unlikely to be the case. 

I would also like to address Kant in my next post, when I have more time, if you would open for that, as there are things I completely agree with him on and other areas where I (and many others) part ways with him conclusions.

Lucidus, thanks for the response. I am working up an answer, but it may take me a few days as I am about to do some traveling.  
[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]





Messages In This Thread
Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-08-2019, 02:42 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - fredtoast - 05-08-2019, 03:01 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-08-2019, 03:23 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - fredtoast - 05-08-2019, 03:35 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-08-2019, 03:49 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - CJD - 05-08-2019, 03:59 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-08-2019, 04:19 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - fredtoast - 05-08-2019, 04:24 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-08-2019, 04:32 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - fredtoast - 05-08-2019, 05:05 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-08-2019, 05:41 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - fredtoast - 05-08-2019, 07:17 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-08-2019, 09:22 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - michaelsean - 05-08-2019, 10:10 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - fredtoast - 05-09-2019, 12:34 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-10-2019, 06:47 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - fredtoast - 05-13-2019, 12:32 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-13-2019, 09:35 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - fredtoast - 05-14-2019, 04:16 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-14-2019, 10:38 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Dill - 05-08-2019, 08:10 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - fredtoast - 05-08-2019, 08:14 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - CJD - 05-08-2019, 03:09 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - fredtoast - 05-08-2019, 03:31 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - CJD - 05-08-2019, 03:32 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - hollodero - 05-08-2019, 03:36 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - CJD - 05-08-2019, 03:47 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Dill - 05-08-2019, 04:13 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - hollodero - 05-08-2019, 05:05 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Dill - 05-08-2019, 05:24 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - hollodero - 05-09-2019, 01:30 AM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Dill - 05-09-2019, 03:43 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - hollodero - 05-09-2019, 03:51 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-08-2019, 03:36 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - CJD - 05-08-2019, 03:42 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - CKwi88 - 05-08-2019, 03:58 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-08-2019, 04:03 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - CKwi88 - 05-08-2019, 04:46 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-08-2019, 04:53 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - CKwi88 - 05-08-2019, 05:32 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Dill - 05-08-2019, 04:02 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-08-2019, 06:07 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - fredtoast - 05-08-2019, 07:27 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-08-2019, 07:44 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - fredtoast - 05-08-2019, 07:57 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-08-2019, 08:15 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Dill - 05-08-2019, 08:17 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-08-2019, 08:57 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-08-2019, 09:48 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-08-2019, 10:22 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-08-2019, 10:51 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - hollodero - 05-09-2019, 06:43 AM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - fredtoast - 05-13-2019, 12:40 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-13-2019, 12:45 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - fredtoast - 05-13-2019, 12:58 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-13-2019, 01:13 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - fredtoast - 05-13-2019, 01:19 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-13-2019, 01:21 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - fredtoast - 05-13-2019, 01:38 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-13-2019, 01:42 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-13-2019, 01:58 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-13-2019, 06:31 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-13-2019, 11:56 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-14-2019, 01:09 AM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-14-2019, 11:59 AM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-13-2019, 01:17 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-13-2019, 01:39 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - fredtoast - 05-14-2019, 03:17 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - fredtoast - 05-16-2019, 10:01 AM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - fredtoast - 05-16-2019, 12:05 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - fredtoast - 05-16-2019, 05:04 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - fredtoast - 05-15-2019, 06:10 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - fredtoast - 05-15-2019, 07:32 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - fredtoast - 05-14-2019, 02:32 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - fredtoast - 05-14-2019, 03:32 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - fredtoast - 05-14-2019, 04:18 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-14-2019, 04:36 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Bengalzona - 05-08-2019, 06:13 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-08-2019, 09:34 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Bengalzona - 05-08-2019, 09:35 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-08-2019, 09:40 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Dill - 05-08-2019, 09:43 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-08-2019, 09:58 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Benton - 05-08-2019, 10:01 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-08-2019, 10:47 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Benton - 05-08-2019, 11:03 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Bengalzona - 05-08-2019, 10:06 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Dill - 05-08-2019, 09:42 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-08-2019, 09:46 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Dill - 05-09-2019, 03:09 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Dill - 05-09-2019, 04:14 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Bengalzona - 05-08-2019, 10:10 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - fredtoast - 05-09-2019, 12:23 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - fredtoast - 05-08-2019, 08:55 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - michaelsean - 05-08-2019, 09:18 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Millhouse - 05-08-2019, 09:48 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-08-2019, 11:01 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - treee - 05-08-2019, 11:08 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Nately120 - 05-08-2019, 11:29 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-09-2019, 12:28 AM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Nately120 - 05-09-2019, 09:55 AM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - michaelsean - 05-09-2019, 10:15 AM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - hollodero - 05-09-2019, 10:38 AM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - michaelsean - 05-09-2019, 10:50 AM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - samhain - 05-09-2019, 12:54 AM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - jj22 - 05-09-2019, 12:13 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - michaelsean - 05-09-2019, 01:31 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - jj22 - 05-09-2019, 03:10 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - michaelsean - 05-09-2019, 04:17 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - jason - 05-09-2019, 01:46 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - jj22 - 05-09-2019, 03:11 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - GMDino - 05-13-2019, 04:01 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-13-2019, 09:41 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-13-2019, 11:03 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-14-2019, 05:28 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-14-2019, 07:03 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-14-2019, 08:17 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-14-2019, 08:49 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-14-2019, 09:23 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-14-2019, 10:10 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-14-2019, 10:26 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-14-2019, 10:49 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-15-2019, 12:17 AM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-15-2019, 12:38 AM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-15-2019, 12:49 AM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - GMDino - 05-15-2019, 08:58 AM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-15-2019, 12:22 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - fredtoast - 05-15-2019, 06:23 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-15-2019, 08:31 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - fredtoast - 05-16-2019, 09:58 AM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-16-2019, 01:19 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - GMDino - 05-16-2019, 02:21 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-16-2019, 03:32 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - GMDino - 05-17-2019, 12:35 AM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-17-2019, 12:46 AM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - GMDino - 05-17-2019, 09:11 AM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - fredtoast - 05-16-2019, 05:09 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-16-2019, 06:42 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - fredtoast - 05-16-2019, 06:51 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-16-2019, 06:57 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-15-2019, 12:29 AM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - fredtoast - 05-14-2019, 03:14 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - fredtoast - 05-14-2019, 03:39 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-14-2019, 04:45 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - michaelsean - 05-15-2019, 08:48 AM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - GMDino - 05-15-2019, 09:01 AM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-14-2019, 07:50 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-14-2019, 06:46 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-14-2019, 11:54 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - fredtoast - 05-15-2019, 06:31 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-15-2019, 08:27 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-15-2019, 10:31 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-16-2019, 02:02 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-16-2019, 04:23 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-16-2019, 10:35 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Dill - 05-17-2019, 03:00 AM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-17-2019, 01:15 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Dill - 05-18-2019, 02:53 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-18-2019, 05:58 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Dill - 05-21-2019, 02:44 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-22-2019, 03:02 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Dill - 05-27-2019, 11:28 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-18-2019, 03:59 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-22-2019, 01:34 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-23-2019, 03:28 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - GMDino - 05-14-2019, 09:41 AM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - jj22 - 05-14-2019, 11:47 AM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - jj22 - 05-14-2019, 04:38 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - jj22 - 05-14-2019, 05:57 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-14-2019, 08:22 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - GMDino - 05-15-2019, 02:30 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-15-2019, 09:55 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-15-2019, 11:33 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-16-2019, 02:46 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-16-2019, 03:38 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-16-2019, 04:34 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - GMDino - 05-16-2019, 10:12 AM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - treee - 05-16-2019, 02:41 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Beaker - 05-17-2019, 09:28 AM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Dill - 05-17-2019, 12:59 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-17-2019, 01:59 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - GMDino - 05-17-2019, 02:26 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Lucidus - 05-17-2019, 02:32 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - GMDino - 05-17-2019, 02:48 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - GMDino - 05-17-2019, 01:42 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Beaker - 05-17-2019, 05:07 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Dill - 05-18-2019, 02:22 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Dill - 05-18-2019, 02:15 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Beaker - 05-24-2019, 09:29 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - michaelsean - 05-28-2019, 09:26 AM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Beaker - 05-29-2019, 08:53 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - michaelsean - 08-08-2019, 09:50 AM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Beaker - 08-08-2019, 11:29 AM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - michaelsean - 01-23-2020, 11:07 AM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - michaelsean - 02-04-2020, 03:47 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - michaelsean - 01-23-2020, 12:39 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - bfine32 - 05-24-2019, 09:43 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Benton - 08-09-2019, 09:21 AM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Beaker - 08-08-2019, 04:09 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - michaelsean - 08-08-2019, 04:44 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - michaelsean - 08-08-2019, 10:33 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - Dill - 08-09-2019, 05:26 PM
RE: Do you believe; and why? - michaelsean - 08-13-2019, 02:24 PM

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