War with Iran?

[Dill]

  Here are some centrifugal issues I thought I should take care of before dealing with parts of your post that more directly address my argument.

(06-20-2019, 06:33 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Dill Wrote: What choice "remains with Iran"?
I believe that's been made abundantly clear.  I know you have a soft spot for anything islamic, so I'll proceed accordingly.

 
You said you disagreed with Bush's decision to invade Iraq.  Does that mean you had a "soft spot" for Saddam Hussein?

(06-20-2019, 06:33 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote:

Quote: Wrote:So, without evidence that Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons, and with much evidence that it has chosen not too,

Evidence like this?   https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/17/us/politics/iran-nuclear-deal-uranium.html

Iran threatened on Monday to accelerate its nuclear program in violation of a 2015 nuclear agreement, moving it closer to the ability to build an atomic weapon

 
This is not evidence that Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons. It is threatening to do so in the wake of a series of US CHOICES --to back out of the Iran Deal, to pressure other signatories to do so, to collapse Iran's economy, and to increase the mass of military force on Iran's borders.  Iran's threat to do what it is not presently doing, and in response to threatening US behavior, does not invalidate any of my points. 

This is in fact evidence of how the current US policy is creating the very problem it claims to be addressing.

(06-20-2019, 06:33 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Quote:But then the US chose to pressure the other signatories to back out as well. Amidst buzz of another goal --"regime change."

Ahh, "buzz".  Next we'll be contacting Mistress Cleo to see what happens next.

 
No need to contact Mistress Cleo.  John Bolton's own widely reported pronouncements from before his appointment as NSC  advisor and his actions afterwards make this point. He has always made clear the regime is his target and that it will be Iran's "choice" if the US attacks it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2018/03/24/john-bolton-wants-regime-change-in-iran-and-so-does-the-cult-that-paid-him/?utm_term=.3af42976368d
ttps://theintercept.com/2018/03/23/heres-john-bolton-promising-regime-change-iran-end-2018/
https://worldeventsandthebible.com/current-events/john-bolton-promises-regime-change-iran-before-2019
https://www.vox.com/world/2019/1/14/18181962/iran-news-bolton-strike-pentagon-trump-mattis
https://www.mediaite.com/politics/gen-david-petraeus-knocks-john-bolton-over-iran-regime-change-is-not-always-what-we-hope/

Did you not know of Bolton's comments?

(06-20-2019, 06:33 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote:

Quote: Wrote:And then, in addition to re-instatement of sanctions, the US chose to send more and more military forces into the Gulf, with drones ranging across Iranian territory.

Care to elaborate on "more and more"?

 
For example this
https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2019-05-06/us-rushes-ships-to-middle-east-over-unspecified-iran-threats
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-06/u-s-deploys-aircraft-carrier-to-middle-east-in-warning-to-iran
And this
https://www.apnews.com/10044ee6ce494283ba4c2e7f86f7b650
And this
https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/16/politics/us-force-increase-middle-east-tanker-attacks/index.html

You asked because you did not know about these increases in force level?

Now for the final red herring.

(06-20-2019, 06:33 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Quote:With your blessing, the US has chosen to place military assets all along Iran's coast with apparent readiness to violate their sea and airspace, something most nations would not tolerate.

Chortle, thank god they have my blessing, otherwise they wouldn't have done that.  Also, please cite the post in which I gave this move my "blessing".  Or are you just pulling "facts" out of your posterior to support your argument?

 
Perhaps I should have said "endorsement"?  You don't contest current, and eminently contestable, US policy or actions. You express support for them, accept the Bolton/Trump framing of the issue as "Iran's choice" while offering no cautions. You defend their policy and actions against critics. Ergo they have your "blessing."  As expressed in post #182.

(06-20-2019, 06:33 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: There is an honest debate to be had about whether the former deal with Iran was the best way to achieve nuclear disarmament.  Regardless, that is no longer a possibility, so the choice remains with Iran.  Persist in pursuing nuclear weapons and risk war or abandon attempts to make them and completely avoid any risk of war.