Do you care about our military and national security?

[Dill]

(06-12-2020, 09:51 AM)hollodero Wrote: I do not dispute that, or any of the things you say. My assertion is not an expression of trust in Trump. I just quite distrust some folks on this list. Trump is focused on the economy and possibly is easily persuaded to refrain from war by being told about the negative impact on these data. That is his "plus side" in that regard. Others might be more beholden to the war industry, like quite a lot of past presidents were. Say something nice about Pence, at least he isn't Cheney.

I can not quite avoid the observation that besides all his dangerous blunders, Trump made it through 3,5 years without major militaric conflict, and this is quite exceptional for a republican president as of late. Sure he benefits from the fact that no one wants to play war with the US and there was no 9/11-like or even Kuwait-like incident. Still, quite some of the listed guys might already be in Venezuela or Iran. Tell me that certainly ain't so if you dare :).

Being "beholden to the war industry" is about economics: weapons instead of new schools and roads, but not necessarily war.  All presidents are "beholden" to the lobby and its jobs. 

That 3.5 years without major or war is really just chance though, right?  He at least twice put us on the doorstep of war, increasing rather than lessening the risk,--unnecessarily--and it required the cooperation of our adversaries to make sure we didn't cross the threshold.  Kind of like tossing a coin in the air. 

I cannot think of a single person on Fred's list who would have tossed that coin so unnecessarily and twice--or who would "already" have us in Iran or Venezuela. And I cannot think of one who would have scotched the Iran Deal or pulled us out of the TPP. I cannot imagine any of them canceling military exercises in North Korea for nothing or accepting the Kremlin's "theory" that Ukraine and not Russia interfered in the US election.

We cannot be sure what Pence would do after a 9/11, though I grant that unlike Cheney, he has no plan for an unnecessary war ready to piggyback on a necessary one. Had we such an event, there is still every reason to trust those who know war, logistics, strategy and diplomacy over Trump, from whom we could expect impulsive panic, and a botch of constructing alliances.  We can be sure Trump would not finally "become presidential."