It's Kamala!

[hollodero]

(08-13-2020, 03:09 PM)Dill Wrote: 1. LOL, sounds like YOU don't take the Republican base seriously, at least the Evangelical wing. 

I leave that to imagination, but I was not the one that threw a Sarah Palin in front of them and claimed that this person is exactly what you were praying for. This show of disrespect isn't on me.

(08-13-2020, 03:09 PM)Dill Wrote: 2. When Fox commentators affirm merit over race, gender etc., it's not because they are suddenly all about principle, affirming THE BEST PERSON FOR THE JOB and anti-identity politics; it's because they are for Trump. 

Well, you took an argument of mine, compared it to an argument made on FOX and then you state that those FOX people usually make those arguments in bad faith. I agree with that, but I don't see that as an efficiant rebuttal of my initial argument. It's not on me that Ingraham made s amiliar one.

(08-13-2020, 03:09 PM)Dill Wrote: 4. Your counter argument about the Hispanic "swing" vote is a good one. Hispanic women certainly are marginalized, although historically not to the degree black women have been. The X factor which I introduced is that Black women have done so much groundwork for Dems, especially in the South. Ever since the great turn in 1964. 

I see. Well, for one now hispanics could say, oh so that's why you are so engaged with black people, it is a reward for always picking you...! But shouldn't you be there for all americans? Are we less important just because we do not overwhelmingly vote for you?... I mean, that would be a fair point to make, and I guess for some a fair reason to not vote for Democrats. I could understand that (generally, not specifically in Trump times).
And secondly, I see this logic as flawed, as stated in my reply to Pat. Maybe not completely flawed, but the extremes of this line of thinking are. Blacks were loyal and were mistreated in the country for a long time and still are now, so that's an argument for a black president. Now sure, there now was a black president, but there are still black women and Obama was not a woman, so now we need to pick a black woman for VP and for president in 2024 (and this is quite likely the reality). She should probably pick a gay VP then, because let's face it this group also was treated poorly by society and the law and still is, and they are mostly loyal Dem voters. When do we throw a bone to the hispanics? What about Asians, they are 1/2 of the black population, but a ratio of 2 blacks : 1 asian seems only fair, and Asian Americans suffered concentration camps...

... I mean, maybe you can see my point.
In the end, it should be about something else than race or gender, imho more or less entirely. This, again, is not a shot at Kamala Harris or her abilities. It's a shot at the principle.

(08-13-2020, 03:09 PM)Dill Wrote: 5. It is right to presume Biden will get more of the black vote than Trump. But he needs an Obama-level turn out. Remember how many women were offended when Obama won the nomination over Hillary, and many refused to vote. Then when it was Hillary's turn, she lost millions of Bernie supporters by not treating the Left-without-quotation-marks seriously. She got much more of the Black vote than Trump, but needed that extra 8-10% that stayed home. Biden was responding to an organized demand from within the party, most of it coming from people who would be doing the ground work of campaigning--or maybe not so much if they feel publicly dissed.  Now he can figure out what to promise to keep the Bernie/Warren supporters without scaring off the moderates.

It might have been the right move strategically to commit to a black woman as VP, I don't really know that. Biden might also have faced pressure, and I do not really question his specific course of action in all of that. He did what he felt he needed to do, might as well be out of conviction, no shot at him either.
But Biden faces little enthusiasm as an obstacle, which imho is a way less significant obstacle than those Hillary faced. She was widely hated. She was especially hated by Bernie people, for she was the primary villain to begin with, and then she also was not incredibly accused of trickery within the DNC. She came with the server issue, which actually imho is awful, and the shadow of an investigation hanging over her. Her name is linked to a bunch of scandals, sure probably many just overblown nonsense, but she still just was. She was the wall street and establishment candidate, the one that was entitled to the post and whose turn it now was. And Trump still could have turned out presidential (I mean, he couldn't, but now more people will know that). I think many things are different this time around.

What I will add at this point that if you really need a black female running mate to bother showing up and voting against Trump, you are a bit weird imho. But sure, what gives, a vote is a vote.