08-24-2020, 11:26 PM
(08-24-2020, 09:15 PM)Dill Wrote: The bold touches on why the Left-without-quotation-marks (hereafter LwQM) considers race a social/cultural/historical designation rather than a biological one. In the US, people were considered "black" even if they had only one black ancestor four generations back. That framing of race is what created "African Americans" as an ethnic group distinct from, say, Carribean or South Americans of African descent, places where the one-drop rule never obtained.
So, why would you want to perpetuate this?
Quote:So, going back to US history, even very light-skinned people with African features
You keep referencing "African features", what exactly do you mean by this?
Quote:"African features" would be primarily skin and facial features which, singly or in combination, could signal black ancestry to anyone policing racial divisions.
I ask again, as you seem to know, what exactly are these "African features?"
Quote:To say that the LwQM view of race looks like a "prison determinant of race" is to say that in prison, race no important social classficatory function. Or it is still to misunderstand that view altogether.
Sorry, this part really doesn't make sense.
Quote:Well you introduced "legal discrimination" when you referenced the one-drop rule--a legal concept which enforced discrimination. You said "the Left" used it as well as the Klan. Perhaps you did not know what the one drop rule is, or why any common, ordinary recognition of any racial feature/identity, including self-identification out of pride, does not exemplify it.
No, I really didn't. You're arguing a different point than me. I'm stating the left of today will use the same standard as the past to determine who is, and is not, black. I make no claims on how this is used for, or against them, in society. That's your joint.
Quote:Well I can't exactly offer a "counter example" until I get an example.
You mean other than the two I already gave you?
Quote:Virtually EVERYONE in the US "labels" Obama and Kaepernick as "Black," including Obama and Kaepernick (and probably you before this thread), which does not make ALL THOSE PEOPLE part of the the left or the right or the klan or exponents of the one drop rule.
I'm sad to hear that. I see them both as being of mixed ethnicity. I'm sorry you completely discount their parent who was not black, especially as Obama's dad essentially abandoned him and he was raised by his mother and maternal grandparents. What a disservice to their memory and effort to utterly discount their contribution both to his genetics and his upbringing.
Quote:So again, it is not possible to know what you are really talking about when you say "the left" labels people with any amount of black ancestry as "black," and in some manner which makes them the mirror image of the Klan. I just cited two LwQM authors who DO NOT "label" people as you say but illuinate the social development of such labels. From you I still have no names, no examples, just this monolithic construction "the Left" with no face(s).
I just gave you two examples.
Quote:Sure, there is a similar "reverse" one-drop principle at work in Brazil, and I defined it through a US counterpart. Merely noting that doesn't somehow connect it to "the left" in either country, or make your point about how "the left" views race in the US.
Sure, the exact thing happens in another country but in reverse, but you brought it up to prove what?
Quote:?? I wasn't aware that recognition of "black ancestry" worked against racial equality, though denying it has often been an effect of racism.
Who said it did? However, utterly ignoring the entirety of someone's ancestry does.
Quote:Frankly, it would be pretty odd to see a LwQM walking around saying "you got one eighth then you are black not white." Could that have happened in 1935? Not sure. Maybe. Today a LwQM would be fine if someone with one eighth ancestry called himself white or black. I'm not surprised you don't seem to have examples.
I'm surprised you don't have even one.
Quote:A concluding note: People who self identify as or who are called "Black" in the US are not all "lefists." They comprise plenty of conservatives and liberals of all shades.
An intriguingly odd statement for you to make considering your past comments about black Trump supporters.
Quote:They argue about what race is, what Black identity is, and the mix is complicated when people of color from other countries arrive in the US from the Carribean or India or South America and DO NOT identify as black, only to find themselves challenged by others to explain themselves. Outside of Fox, people don't designate all those people and their debates/positions as "the Left."
Seeing as you have apparently given this a lot of thought I'm surprised you didn't provide even one example.
