So what’s next?

[BmorePat87]

(06-08-2020, 12:37 PM)Dill Wrote: I don't agree that we've never had "in-depth" critical analyses of policy issues in the forum. Factoring in our amateur status, we have had some good ones on foreign policy. They have been derailed at times when some people divert from policy to personal attack, calling others "disingenuous" or "liars", sure. I think we have had at least one good, developing discussion of voter suppression (you even posted an academic paper there); same for immigration and climate change, though admittedly these tend to get stalled when the personal attacks begin or one side simply bows out. 

But conversations are equally derailed when grounded criticisms of Trump are reflexively dismissed as "because Trump."

THAT is how people make it about Trump, the person, rather than policy.  As if connecting Trump's past policies and statements encouraging police brutality to current police brutality were simply a personal attack on the order of making fun of his hair, and a diversion from addressing the problem of police brutality.

As if we should leave Trump OUT of any discussion of why his AG and NSC advisor BOTH claim there is no systemic racism in police departments (when most reformers agree the preponderance of evidence suggests there is) because we don't want to "make it about Trump." https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/07/us/politics/justice-department-barr-racism-police.html

So I am agreeing with you here. Trump's position as POTUS places him at the center of Executive policy; impossible to discuss the policy without discussing the person who directs it.

"Derailment" is indeed what happens when people separate Trump the person from his actions as president.   What makes it worse the derailers continually invert cause/effect, claiming that criticizing Trump for what he actually does is "derailment," while separating him from his official actions (the import of "because Trump!") is not.

Rock bottom for the one-time party of personal responsibility.

Agreed, we have a lot of great discussions. When people seek to troll for the sake of trolling, it gets derailed. This is a volunteer gig for mods, they shouldn't need to police that behavior. You either need personal growth and maturity on the part of the troll or you need everyone else to not feed the trolling. 

There should be no need to explain how POTUS is relevant to federal policies to justify criticizing POTUS when you criticize the federal policy he influences. Doing so only further feeds into the troll's derailment.