08-21-2023, 06:11 PM
(08-21-2023, 02:31 PM)pally Wrote: Ohio passed 2 citizen amendments that sought to limit gerrymandering, they passed overwhelmingly. When the time came to redistrict the committee flat-out ignore the state constitution (as determined multiple times by a bipartisan vote of the state supreme court). Basically, they ignored the orders to fix the maps until they ran the clock out and a 3 member, all-Republican, Federal court hearing ordered these illegal maps used for the 2022 election. That gave the State legislatures a Republican supermajority and at least 2 more Republican members of Congress.
I legitimately applaud you for being the first person to bring up gerrymandering. I kept waiting for Dill to bring it up because it's actually a good point for his argument. That being said I don't think it's actually working much in your favor in Ohio. Or at least not to the extent you might argue. Do you think that with a more equitable map that Ohio's state government would still be majority GOP? I would say rather decidedly, yes. Hence, the argument cannot be made that a minority, much less a "super minority" (not your word, I know), is imposing their will on the majority.
Quote:Ohio, in 2022 easily voted in 2 new members of the State Board of Education. The 2 members were liberals which gave Democrats a majority on the board. The illegally gerrymandered supermajority state legislature then turned around and stripped the Board of their policy-making authority giving it to an official appointed by the Republican governor. The voters did everything right and the legislature said FU.
This is a much better example. Question, would a super majority be needed to impose this change, or would a simple majority suffice?
Quote:58% of Ohioans back abortion at least through the 1st trimester, the Supermajority passed a hard 6-week ban with no exceptions for rape or incest. Then knowing that a constitutional amendment vote was happening in Nov tried to force through another amendment that would essentially block that citizen-led amendment (and all future citizen-led amendments)...luckily that one failed.
So, even in your examples you actually provide a point in my favor. Also, because it should be repeated, 58% is a majority but 42% against is not a "super-minority".
Quote:These are just a couple of low-hanging examples of state legislatures ignoring the will of the majority to push their own agendas. The only hope Ohio has of surviving MAGA rule is the citizen-led ballots initiative option. Sadly, though most extremely gerrymandered states don't have citizen options. They have to rely on the courts and those are often as partisan as the legislatures
You actually only gave one, the BoE. The other example, the gerrymandered maps, is not exactly a huge point in your favor as even without them Ohio would still have a majority GOP state government. Would they lack the power of a super majority? Very likely so, but that doesn't mean that they are flat out ignoring the will of the people. And, as you yourself pointed out, the people decisively prevented one of their machinations through voting. Still, this is by far the best argument put forth for this position in the thread, sincere kudos.
