Trump, lets move on

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(07-22-2022, 09:15 PM)Lucidus Wrote: There is no substantial proof that the Jesus character represented in the Bible actually existed -- divine or not. It's much more likely that "Jesus" was an amalgamation of the outspoken itinerant rabbis at that time. 

Ooh, that's a doozy that I've never heard before!

I'm not going to argue on this, as I don't know the other side (your POV) enough to debate on it, but from absolutely everything I have read, studied, looked at, etc., the guy existed. All of the Abrahamic religions write about him in some form, not to mention the Sikhs also write about him in their texts, as having visited the East in his travels before coming back to the Holy Land around his baptism and crucifixion. I don't know about the Buddhist and Hindu side of things, but a lot of his teachings (as told in the Bible) and mentality came from the Sikh/Hindu ways of acting and thinking.

But yeah, an amalgamation of Rabbis and the like; that's a fascinating POV! (and I'm not being sarcastic either, it's something new!)

Quote:These aren't retellings of the time, they are literal guidelines / instructions:

Leviticus 25:44-46
44 As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. 45 You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. 46 You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly.

Exodus 21:20-21
20 “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. 21 But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.

Exodus 21:2
2 When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing.

Exodus 21
21:1 “Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2 When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. 3 If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master’s, and he shall go out alone. 5 But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ 6 then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever.

7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. 8 If she does not please her master, who has designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has broken faith with her. 9 If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. 10 If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, or her marital rights. 11 And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out for nothing, without payment of money.

It's all undeniably disgusting. There is no context that matters when it comes to owning other human beings as property.

As to your last line, absolutely; no human should have ownership over another.

But you included Exodus in there; that is clearly a set of rules that were set out at the time, "by God," for Israelites only and it has nothing to do with Catholicism/Christianity and again, anyone with a modicum of common sense would just see it as an antiquated thing from its time and not to be taken into the modern day.

I guess I should modify what I said, in that, "it is to be interpreted as a retelling of how things are and not to be used a guide, in modern day." That is a bit more accurate.

I see where you're coming from 100%, but while Exodus 21 is a disturbing chapter, it's easy to overlook/ignore as quackery as it is an antiquated way of thinking/doing things; like Phrenology. A scientific book at the time of Phrenology's height may have other, apt and still scientifically-correct terms and facts, but it can include the outdated/antiquated, "science," as well.

So yes, perhaps I was being a bit presumptuous/dismissive in my previous post and I apologise.