Israel/Hamas War Superthread

[Dill]

(4 hours ago)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Hmm, I guess freeing all Palestinian prisoners doesn't include freeing convicted terrorists.  We've gone over this before.  What I am acknowledging is the shockingly ignorant character of these people, including yourself who are inadvertently or willfully ignorant of the Hamas strategy to maximize civilian casualties to get simpletons in the west to be sympathetic to their "plight".

Hamas is playing you and your fellow lefties like a fiddle, grinning and raping all the while.  You're a useful tool to them, and that's it.  Not many things sadder than someone who allows themselves to be used by rapists and murderers.

As a matter of fact, I have long been aware of what you call "Hamas' strategy" and can accurately summarize a number of professional-quality analyses of it, such as this 2019 report from StratCom COE https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles/hamas_human_shields.pdf, and other uses of "lawfare."

Where we differ is that I also understand 

1) how one-sided such analyses tend to be, ignoring Israeli use of Palestinians for involuntary human shields, and
 
2) how Israel rejects recommendations for how to handle that problem within the limits of humanitarian law, while appealing to this "well-known Hamas' strategy"
to explain away indiscriminate bombing and legitimize gunning down civilians in free fire zones.

I.e., the so-called "Hamas strategy" is also a mainstay of IDF/Israeli propaganda--that there is no "plight" beyond what Hamas has created. It's their fault if Israel bombs a an apartment building full of civilians and arrests thousands without charge. And it requires Western audiences, especially in the US, to think that Hamas somehow has a better, more effective propaganda machine and press savvy than does Israel, whose officials are interviewed by our press every day and has
lobbying organizations composed of US citizens. 

That's how we get to a point where those protesting Israeli war crimes are called "tools"; but not those giving the IDF cover.  

But where we primarily differ is on the issue of universal human rights. You don't have a problem with the Israeli military occupation or the dispossession it protects.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(3 hours ago)Dill Wrote: Hissy fit.   That didn't "alter" your post. The quotes were not used to attribute a quote to you.

The left can't meme.

Quote:LOL would you say that "plenty" support Hamas?

I would say a not insignificant number do.  Hence my using that exact wording.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(3 hours ago)Dill Wrote: As a matter of fact, I have long been aware of what you call "Hamas' strategy" and can accurately summarize a number of professional-quality analyses of it, such as this 2019 report from StratCom COE https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles/hamas_human_shields.pdf, and other uses of "lawfare."

Where we differ is that I also understand 

1) how one-sided such analyses tend to be, ignoring Israeli use of Palestinians for involuntary human shields, and
 
2) how Israel rejects recommendations for how to handle that problem within the limits of humanitarian law, while appealing to this "well-known Hamas' strategy"
to explain away indiscriminate bombing and legitimize gunning down civilians in free fire zones.

I.e., the so-called "Hamas strategy" is also a mainstay of IDF/Israeli propaganda--that there is no "plight" beyond what Hamas has created. It's their fault if Israel bombs a an apartment building full of civilians and arrests thousands without charge. And it requires Western audiences, especially in the US, to think that Hamas somehow has a better, more effective propaganda machine and press savvy than does Israel, whose officials are interviewed by our press every day and has
lobbying organizations composed of US citizens. 

That's how we get to a point where those protesting Israeli war crimes are called "tools"; but not those giving the IDF cover.  

But where we primarily differ is on the issue of universal human rights. You don't have a problem with the Israeli military occupation or the dispossession it protects.

Interesting that you would post a source on Hamas using human shields and then immediately discount it.



From said source.

Hamas is an Islamist militant group based in the Gaza Strip, which has been designated by the US, the EU and other countries as a terrorist group. Hamas has been using human shields in conflicts with Israel since 2007. Although the definition of human shields is not consistent among states and inter-governmental organisations, the Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC) states the war crime of using human shields encompasses “utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas, or military forces immune from military operations.”


1 Hamas relies on the Israeli government’s aim to minimise collateral damage, and is also aware of the West‘s sensitivity towards civilian casualties. Hamas’ use of human shields is therefore likely aimed at minimising their own vulnerabilities by limiting the Israeli Defense Forces’ (IDF) freedom of action. It is also aimed at gaining diplomatic and public opinion-related leverage, by presenting Israel and the IDF as an aggressor that indiscriminately strikes civilians.


2 Hamas’ most common uses of human shields include: Firing rockets, artillery, and mortars from or in proximity to heavily populated civilian areas, often from or near facilities which should be protected according to the Geneva Convention (e.g. schools, hospitals, or mosques). Locating military or security-related infrastructures such as HQs, bases, armouries, access routes, lathes, or defensive positions within or in proximity to civilian areas. 


3 Protecting terrorists’ houses and military facilities, or rescuing terrorists who were besieged or warned by the IDF.


4 Combating the IDF from or in proximity to residential and commercial areas, including using civilians for intelligence gathering missions. By engaging in these acts, Hamas employs a win-win scenario: if indeed the IDF uses kinetic power, and the number of civilian causalities surges, Hamas can use that as a weapon in the lawfare it conducts. 


5 It would be able to accuse the IDF (and Israel) of committing war crimes, which in turn could result in the imposition of a wide array of sanctions. On the other hand, if the IDF limits its use of military power in Gaza to avoid collateral damage, Hamas will be less vulnerable to Israeli attacks, and thereby able to protect its assets while continuing to fight.


Underlined especially significant.  All of this sounds startlingly familiar.  But unfortunately they got it wrong in this last bit.

Hamas’ growing strategic distress in the face of recent geopolitical developments will probably push the organisation towards a more pragmatic strategy in the near future. However, the movement is simultaneously preparing itself for yet another round of armed conflict with Israel. If this indeed happens, and in light of the success of the human shield practice, there is every reason to believe Hamas will continue resorting to the use of civilians as human shields. 


This source dramatically underestimated the idiocy of the radical left in the West.  Sadly so.

[StoneTheCrow]

(2 hours ago)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: The left can't meme.



I would say a not insignificant number do.  Hence my using that exact wording.

Sen. @JohnFetterman (D-PA): “The protesters at Columbia demonstrated that there are two factions of the protesters — there’s the pro-Hamas, and then there’s the really pro-Hamas."https://t.co/FIcwvjBLD1

— Josh Kraushaar (@JoshKraushaar) May 2, 2024

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(2 hours ago)StoneTheCrow Wrote:

Sen. @JohnFetterman (D-PA): “The protesters at Columbia demonstrated that there are two factions of the protesters — there’s the pro-Hamas, and then there’s the really pro-Hamas."https://t.co/FIcwvjBLD1

— Josh Kraushaar (@JoshKraushaar) May 2, 2024

Fetterman becoming a favorite of mine was absolutely not on my 2024 bingo card.

[StoneTheCrow]

(2 hours ago)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Fetterman becoming a favorite of mine was absolutely not on my 2024 bingo card.

Agree, and that could be a different topic altogether (looking at you, Bob Mendez…awfully quiet otherwise about that guy).

Anyway…

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(2 hours ago)StoneTheCrow Wrote: Agree, and that could be a different topic altogether (looking at you, Bob Mendez…awfully quiet otherwise about that guy).

Anyway…

Dude, everyone has tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars in foreign stamped gold bars.

[StoneTheCrow]

(1 hour ago)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Dude, everyone has tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars in foreign stamped gold bars.

And we’d all be quietly getting away with it too if it wasn’t for that pesky PA Senator Gargamel!

[Dill]

(2 hours ago)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Interesting that you would post a source on Hamas using human shields and then immediately discount it.

This source dramatically underestimated the idiocy of the radical left in the West.  Sadly so.

No need to quote the source since I know it, and others, well.  

And the history of the "lawfare" strategies which have followed, on both sides, much better than you, apparently.

You blew right past my mention of how Israel uses the "Hamas strategy," or oversimplified versions thereof, for their own propaganda,
which you absorb and repeat uncritically. 

That' why you call those protesting Israeli war crimes "tools,"

while giving the IDF cover for war crimes.   Like a sensible radical left would support dispossession and occupation.

[Dill]

(2 hours ago)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I would say a not insignificant number do.  Hence my using that exact wording.

Is a "not insignificant number" more or less exact than "plenty"?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(51 minutes ago)Dill Wrote: No need to quote the source since I know it, and others, well.  

And the history of the "lawfare" strategies which have followed, on both sides, much better than you, apparently.

You blew right past my mention of how Israel uses the "Hamas strategy," or oversimplified versions thereof, for their own propaganda,
which you absorb and repeat uncritically. 

That' why you call those protesting Israeli war crimes "tools,"

while giving the IDF cover for war crimes.   Like a sensible radical left would support dispossession and occupation.

The US has stated that Israel has not committed any "war crimes".  Seeing your deference to the Biden administration I'm going to have to point this out.

(48 minutes ago)Dill Wrote: Is a "not insignificant number" more or less exact than "plenty"?

It's not an insignificant number.

[Dill]

(43 minutes ago)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: The US has stated that Israel has not committed any "war crimes".  Seeing your deference to the Biden administration I'm going to have to point this out.

Lol guess the investigations can stop. Yours certainly has.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(20 minutes ago)Dill Wrote: Lol guess the investigations can stop. Yours certainly has.

I don't work for the US State Department.