(08-14-2017, 09:48 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: [ -> ]All I can say is WOW.
Royle is only critiquing his technique.
I think it's pretty obvious.
Paul Alexander could be the greatest teacher of technique but if the player isn't conveying it to actual play... then what?!?
I guess we should just put on the blinders and take the blue pill?
This. Agree or disagree it's an obviously well thought out set of observations that are made with some obvious knowledge of the game. I think it's really interesting and not character assassination.
It's a legitimate concern that he is still having the same problems. I really hope that Lap is right about him looking better, and there is the hope that he will slowly work through the problems an substantially improve.
But I find nothing excessively negative about the OP. It's nice to have him back.
(08-15-2017, 01:50 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: [ -> ]The surprising part is, he shouldn't have been a first round pick. His tape was never that good. Teams got enamored by his measurables and hype. It happens all the time.
Teams are run by humans. They make mistakes and have flaws too.
He never had the right kind of quickness but they raved about his athleticism so people bought it.
The biggest issue with Ced is that he was a first round pick when he never should have been. He was injured and had serious technique issues. He was a project from day 1.
Plenty of OL guys (Duke Manyweather, Geoff Schwartz etc) have been saying there is a problem in the league with identifying and developing OL. Part of it starts in college and there is a problem in the NFL too.
Teams that get it, seem to always strike gold there. Other teams...not so much.
Extreme example is Dallas.
Why does Dallas always seem to find great talent?
Tyron, La'el, Martin, Cleary, Fredrick...etc
Because they get guys who have a clear defined set of traits that are great for building a productive offensive linemen.
Remember, people thought they were insane drafting Travis Fredrick (I was one of them) and they proved everyone wrong.
They were ahead of the game in scouting and developing OL.
I read Tyrion and then pictured Tyrion Lannister at OT
(08-15-2017, 01:54 PM)treee Wrote: [ -> ]Lol okay.
If you mean by bad bottom roster players, sure.
But high end starters don't play like dog shit in the preseason then turn on the technique switch week one.
They practice high level technique every week.
(08-15-2017, 01:56 PM)ochocincos Wrote: [ -> ]I read Tyrion and then pictured Tyrion Lannister at OT
He'd just hire it out to Bronn
(08-15-2017, 01:50 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: [ -> ]They were ahead of the game in scouting and developing OL.
Well...the Bengals are screwed then.
But all seriousness aside, i was implying the same thing with the rest of your post. With all that needed to be worked on, with all the negatives, he was still graded high and i have no doubt, PA and the other scouts/coaches felt they could get him in here and straighten him out.
(08-15-2017, 01:56 PM)ochocincos Wrote: [ -> ]I read Tyrion and then pictured Tyrion Lannister at OT
Probably wouldn't do much worse than who we have lol
(08-15-2017, 01:56 PM)3wt Wrote: [ -> ]This. Agree or disagree it's an obviously well thought out set of observations that are made with some obvious knowledge of the game. I think it's really interesting and not character assassination.
It's a legitimate concern that he is still having the same problems. I really hope that Lap is right about him looking better, and there is the hope that he will slowly work through the problems an substantially improve.
But I find nothing excessively negative about the OP. It's nice to have him back.
The problem with Lap, is that he's a company man. He largely just toes the line.
Lap probably knows more about football than I ever will. But sometimes, he's just being a great worker and friend and sending out lines the team needs to get out there.
(08-15-2017, 01:58 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: [ -> ]The problem with Lap, is that he's a company man. He largely just toes the line.
Lap probably knows more about football than I ever will. But sometimes, he's just being a great worker and friend and sending out lines the team needs to get out there.
I don't see this from Lap at all. He has never hesitated to criticize. I think he pretty much calls it as he sees it.
(08-15-2017, 01:57 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: [ -> ]Well...the Bengals are screwed then.
But all seriousness aside, i was implying the same thing with the rest of your post. With all that needed to be worked on, with all the negatives, he was still graded high and i have no doubt, PA and the other scouts/coaches felt they could get him in here and straighten him out.
I mean, you aren't wrong.
They have been targeting the wrong things since the Zeitler pick.
They've drafted guys with bad habits and poor technique.
There's something wrong with how they are scouting OL right now.
(08-15-2017, 01:56 PM)3wt Wrote: [ -> ]This. Agree or disagree it's an obviously well thought out set of observations that are made with some obvious knowledge of the game. I think it's really interesting and not character assassination.
It's a legitimate concern that he is still having the same problems. I really hope that Lap is right about him looking better, and there is the hope that he will slowly work through the problems an substantially improve.
But I find nothing excessively negative about the OP. It's nice to have him back.
^This.
There's two things going on in this thread. The OP critiquing his technique and how it will effect how he does going forward, and those that look at the game and see a guy they believe is getting better because the overall results were better.
(08-15-2017, 01:58 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: [ -> ]The problem with Lap, is that he's a company man. He largely just toes the line.
Lap probably knows more about football than I ever will. But sometimes, he's just being a great worker and friend and sending out lines the team needs to get out there.
LOL
I have golfed with Dave and had many conversations and you are full of crap. He has always called it like he sees it. You sure love to make things up when someone like an expert challenges your opinions. If Ced is not getting better, Dave would be the first to say Ced is not getting better and to say otherwise is foolish.
(08-15-2017, 02:01 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: [ -> ]^This.
There's two things going on in this thread. The OP critiquing his technique and how it will effect how he does going forward, and those that look at the game and see a guy they believe is getting better because the overall results were better.
You're forgetting the asshats who (not you obviously) have basically done nothing but attack me as a person lol.
(08-15-2017, 01:56 PM)3wt Wrote: [ -> ]This. Agree or disagree it's an obviously well thought out set of observations that are made with some obvious knowledge of the game. I think it's really interesting and not character assassination.
It's a legitimate concern that he is still having the same problems. I really hope that Lap is right about him looking better, and there is the hope that he will slowly work through the problems an substantially improve.
But I find nothing excessively negative about the OP. It's nice to have him back.
If Ogbuehi improves from the worst LT to the 25th best LT, is that really that great?
I mean yea it's an improvement, but not good enough.
Sadly the Bengals might see any improvement at all as justification for keeping him as the starting LT with hopes that he eventually becomes an average-to-above-average LT down the road.
(08-15-2017, 02:03 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: [ -> ]You're forgetting the asshats who (not you obviously) have basically done nothing but attack me as a person lol.
I don't recall anyone personally attacking you, just pointing out some of your flawed logic.
(08-15-2017, 02:02 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: [ -> ]LOL
I have golfed with Dave and had many conversations and you are full of crap. He has always called it like he sees it. You sure love to make things up when someone like an expert challenges your opinions. If Ced is not getting better, Dave would be the first to say Ced is not getting better and to say otherwise is foolish.
As Ocho says, going from worst to not worst is getting better I guess?
But he's still bad.
(08-15-2017, 02:03 PM)ochocincos Wrote: [ -> ]If Ogbuehi improves from the worst LT to the 25th best LT, is that really that great?
I mean yea it's an improvement, but not good enough.
Sadly the Bengals might see any improvement at all as justification for keeping him as the starting LT with hopes that he eventually becomes an average-to-above-average LT down the road.
You bring up what, to me, is the bottom line. Can we win if he is the 25th best? How good does he need to be to not prevent a loaded offense from succeeding? That's really what it all comes down to.
(08-14-2017, 07:45 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: [ -> ]Last I looked OP and and you were not a Bengal's coach so had no idea of the blocking technique he was being asked be used each play. He
seemed to be on a witch hunt because OP was being questioned about his criticism of Ced in another thread.. I saw Boling driven back closer to the QB on several occasions much further than Ced. So did Boling also have piss poor technique according to the OP?
I have no issue with an unbiased view, but appears to me dude has a heart on for Ced and regardless of how well he does will look to micro manage his play. So if you or others get hurt by my comments, who gives a rats ass anyway.
(08-14-2017, 08:00 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: [ -> ]You amuse me with your arrogance. No fan knows more about OL play in pro football than his professional coach who teaches them the technique to use which changes depending on the play call so not as generic as you want to make it out to be. One size does not fit all in the case. You make some valid points, but many points you made were on assumption. not facts.
As for quick throws, a guy named Tom Brady has won multiple Super Bowls leading the league in average release time. Is it because of bad OL play or because of designed scheme that BB does it year after year?
(08-14-2017, 08:02 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: [ -> ]And some of get real concerned when a moderator calls any human being garbage whether be player or board member? It is disrespectful to trash someone any time, but worse in a forum where they can't defend themselves.
(08-14-2017, 08:07 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: [ -> ]Ok you admit you are just a couch potato like the rest of us and have no clue the coach's calls on how to block on each play thus making your analysis a whole lot of assumptions. Fair enough.. That was my point and is relevant to this discussion.
(08-14-2017, 08:08 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: [ -> ]LOL
Big guy behind a key board.
(08-14-2017, 08:12 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: [ -> ]LOL
Yes I question your credibility and expertise versus a pro coach. Yes, that makes every you post questionable in itself in my opinion.
(08-15-2017, 02:05 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: [ -> ]
I don't recall anyone personally attacking you, just pointing out some of your flawed logic.
Literally all just you using ad hominem attacks and ignoring the content of my posts and trying to attack my credibility or others.
Speaks volumes you assumed it was about you though.
(08-15-2017, 02:06 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: [ -> ]As Ocho says, going from worst to not worst is getting better I guess?
But he's still bad.
He may be, but in time we may see he is not as bad as you want to make him out to be.
I have my concerns too, but in the end out of my control him getting better or worse so I just hope you are dead wrong so we have a good year.