I missed most of the game, but glad that Fisher got some pt. Mostly I've only seen him in jumbo packages and they frequently ran away from his side.
(12-05-2016, 12:42 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: [ -> ]Anywhere but in the NFL that would be true. Hill does not possess the speed to run outside on sweeps and pitches - period !
Off tackle runs with Dalton under center sure.
Once again disagree, it's not about the speed. There have been plenty of power backs to take sweeps and tosses in their NFL career and have success. In order to do it though the blockers have to be set up and oyu have to make a good read on those blocks. the best guys don't just try to make the edge on sweeps, they actually cut it back away from the sideline when the opportunity is there.
Edit: As a side note, even Gio didn't have great success on tosses. We just don't set up the blocks outside well it seems.
(12-05-2016, 01:10 PM)Au165 Wrote: [ -> ]Once again disagree, it's not about the speed. There have been plenty of power backs to take sweeps and tosses in their NFL career and have success. In order to do it though the blockers have to be set up and oyu have to make a good read on those blocks. the best guys don't just try to make the edge on sweeps, they actually cut it back away from the sideline when the opportunity is there.
I can mostly agree with that. But my main point is Hill does not have the speed to move east and west against the vast majority of NFL defenses. Hill is best utilized running north and south, hips square to the line of scrimage.
I fully agree blocking and knowing how to use those blocks is a big part of it. We have poor blocking and Hill doesn't have good vision.
I used to be a big Hill backer but agree now he isn't that good a back. But having said that, the playcalling isn't helping his shortcomings.
(12-05-2016, 11:19 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: [ -> ]Could that be because Bodine was uncovered, facing an even front? Seems that most of his woes come from playing against NTs in the 3-4.
This is absolutely true. Bodine is awful against a 3-4.
(12-05-2016, 11:29 AM)Wyche Wrote: [ -> ]...who is responsible for essentially tanking our season by playing Ogbuehi over these two?
Sing us a song, you're the piano man! Sing us a song tonight. Cuz we're all in the mood for good blocking, but you've got us punching tv's. Ow..Ow..Ouchee Ow...Ow ow ow.
(12-05-2016, 11:52 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: [ -> ]Truth.
Running game was fairly awful overall, but I will say.... First game this season with Ogbuehi not playing = first game this season with Dalton not taking a sack.
That's awfully telling. If the Bengals had cut Nugent in the offseason or even after his awful preseason, and gotten an average kicker, and had benched Ogbuehi when it was clear he was awful, the Bengals would easily be 6-6, if not 7-5. Two blatantly obvious moves and the season could be completely different.
Coaches need to be held accountable for those two blatant failures.
So much truth. Loyalty and patience cost this team dearly this year. Just as it's probably the primary reason this team has no playoff wins since 1990. Mike Brown is too loyal to PA, who is in turn too loyal to guys like Ogbuehi and Bodine.
Nugent is probably retained because Mikey has a soft spot for mediocrity...and guys from OSU.
No team would have started the year with Ogbuehi and stuck with him even though he was absolutely terrible. Or kept Michael Johnson, Maualuga, Bodine, Nugent as starters. I agree it's Mike Browns loyalty or Marvin Lewis Loyalty but someone is responsible for tanking this season. Those 5 guys should have been cut this preseason I don't care what round they were drafted or what there contract is.
(12-05-2016, 02:14 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: [ -> ]No team would have started the year with Ogbuehi and stuck with him even though he was absolutely terrible. Or kept Michael Johnson, Maualuga, Bodine, Nugent as starters. I agree it's Mike Browns loyalty or Marvin Lewis Loyalty but someone is responsible for tanking this season. Those 5 guys should have been cut this preseason I don't care what round they were drafted or what there contract is.
Michael Johnson has not played as bad as people think. He has had some bad games and some good games, basically he has been average, I wouldn't group him with the others. That said I would start looking for his replacement.
As for Ogbuehi, you had to give him a long enough look to know what you had going forward. I think you still keep him around through his contract and hope he can develop, but you will need a better option to start next season.
(12-05-2016, 10:42 AM)Au165 Wrote: [ -> ]I saw Winston get beat often, he didn't give up a sack but he wasn't good either. I want to see more Fisher and then go from there.
Yup. Any time i watched the RT, he was getting tossed around like a rag doll. Both of them. Didn't appear to cause any major damage but it was pretty consistent.
Winston was in rotation like he has been for the past few weeks. Continues to get tossed here and there, but overall kept fighting.
Fisher was in rotation and displayed quite a few problems when it comes to technique. Waist bending. Dropping his eyes and head. Lunging instead of powering forward. Happy footwork.
He displayed a lot of technical problems that Ogubehi has displayed.
The difference is, Fisher continued to fight and tried to always stay engaged. That's the main difference between he and Ogubehi's play thus far.
(12-05-2016, 02:27 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: [ -> ]Winston was in rotation like he has been for the past few weeks. Continues to get tossed here and there, but overall kept fighting.
Fisher was in rotation and displayed quite a few problems when it comes to technique. Waist bending. Dropping his eyes and head. Lunging instead of powering forward. Happy footwork.
He displayed a lot of technical problems that Ogubehi has displayed.
The difference is, Fisher continued to fight and tried to always stay engaged. That's the main difference between he and Ogubehi's play thus far.
Absolutely 100% agree....that's what I saw as well....and I watched that position like a hawk.
Ogbuehi has been a problem all season long and we've talked about it before here. If we knew it, why didn't the coaches. Cedric will backpedal so far that the guy he is blocking will just cut inside and get a sack. That's not how you make a pocket!
Two players different and this whole year is another story. We could've been in a whole different place. smh
I still can't believe we tanked this season because we started our 1st round pick that had no business seeing the field or no business seeing the sidelines. God what a waste of a player Ogbuehi is. Cut asap
The season tanked for more reasons than Ogbuehi.
(12-05-2016, 10:25 AM)milksheikh Wrote: [ -> ]How did Eric Winston play?
I didn't get to look at him during the game (forgot to) so I didn't see if he blocked well which lead to such a great game by Dalton?
Don't know what the FA market for Tackle is projected to be this off season but I would be in favour of investing in RT.
OT in Round 1 seems to much of a lucky dip and besides unlike other years we have other areas like DE, LB which need attention. Plus the scouts/ Alexander had their chance with the top 2 picks in 2015 ... we can draft bad tackles any round - why waste a first on it
Winston is putting in a yeoman's shift but is barely a stop gap this year...who knows if he can/wants to go another year.
After that horrendous first play where Fisher nearly got Dalton kimo'd by Graham i thought he was OK in pass protection.
As for run blocking we really seem to struggle getting consistent push across the whole line....don't think thats just a Winston/RT issue
(12-05-2016, 10:40 AM)Wyche Wrote: [ -> ]He was in rotation with Fisher. They were solid in pass pro, and serviceable in the run game. Whoever is responsible for playing Ogbuehi over this combo needs fired yesterday.
Wyche, how did O look in college? I mean, could this be like an Archie Griffin type thing, where he was amazing in college but just didn't cut it in the NFL?
(12-05-2016, 06:33 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: [ -> ]Wyche, how did O look in college? I mean, could this be like an Archie Griffin type thing, where he was amazing in college but just didn't cut it in the NFL?
Not that great at RT, from what I remember. It seems he was better at G and LT. I didn't watch a whole lot of A & M, mainly because of Manziel until he got drafted (sheesh that little punk made me sick), and being an FSU fan, I watch more ACC games. There are probably others here who can give you a much better idea than me. I do remember he gave up like 6 or 7 sacks in his senior year.
(12-05-2016, 04:12 PM)Big Boss Wrote: [ -> ]The season tanked for more reasons than Ogbuehi.
Yep, like the coaching staff that refused to put him on the bench. And I could go on and on with things wrong with said staff that make up most of the "more reasons".
(12-05-2016, 11:17 AM)Sled21 Wrote: [ -> ]I thought Winston did a good job. There is no reason to play Ogb anymore this season. As Ross Tucker said this morning on Sirius.... "He has proven he is soft"
Ogeebogee needs to get in the weight room and the training table to beef up and to gain a lot of strength, He may be quick enough (can't tell from his turnstile blocking) but is definitely NOT strong enough to play NFL football. He had better come into camp 25-30 pounds heavier and able to bend steel with his bare hands
. Fisher should join him. He also seems too soft.
(12-05-2016, 02:14 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: [ -> ]No team would have started the year with Ogbuehi and stuck with him even though he was absolutely terrible. Or kept Michael Johnson, Maualuga, Bodine, Nugent as starters. I agree it's Mike Browns loyalty or Marvin Lewis Loyalty but someone is responsible for tanking this season. Those 5 guys should have been cut this preseason I don't care what round they were drafted or what there contract is.
I totally agree with your cut list. The decision makers should be tarred and feathered. I watched the game in rerun mode with an eye on certain players. M. Johnson is about 2 steps too slow. He has about the same quickness as Hunt - NONE! The safeties still can't figure out where they are supposed to be on any given play. The CBs are probably at fault too.
(12-05-2016, 05:16 PM)sonofstat Wrote: [ -> ]Don't know what the FA market for Tackle is projected to be this off season but I would be in favour of investing in RT.
OT in Round 1 seems to much of a lucky dip and besides unlike other years we have other areas like DE, LB which need attention. Plus the scouts/ Alexander had their chance with the top 2 picks in 2015 ... we can draft bad tackles any round - why waste a first on it
Winston is putting in a yeoman's shift but is barely a stop gap this year...who knows if he can/wants to go another year.
After that horrendous first play where Fisher nearly got Dalton kimo'd by Graham i thought he was OK in pass protection.
As for run blocking we really seem to struggle getting consistent push across the whole line....don't think thats just a Winston/RT issue
The O line is weak. Thus the zone-blocking scheme is needed. But even with everyone "leaning" the same direction, defenders get into the backfield almost untouched. Very poor coaching IMO.