How did Eric Winston play?

I didn't get to look at him during the game (forgot to) so I didn't see if he blocked well which lead to such a great game by Dalton?

(12-05-2016, 10:25 AM)milksheikh Wrote: How did Eric Winston play?

I didn't get to look at him during the game (forgot to) so I didn't see if he blocked well which lead to such a great game by Dalton?

He was in rotation with Fisher.  They were solid in pass pro, and serviceable in the run game.  Whoever is responsible for playing Ogbuehi over this combo needs fired yesterday.

(12-05-2016, 10:40 AM)Wyche Wrote: He was in rotation with Fisher.  They were solid in pass pro, and serviceable in the run game.  Whoever is responsible for playing Ogbuehi over this combo needs fired yesterday.

I saw Winston get beat often, he didn't give up a sack but he wasn't good either. I want to see more Fisher and then go from there.

(12-05-2016, 10:40 AM)Wyche Wrote: He was in rotation with Fisher.  They were solid in pass pro, and serviceable in the run game.  Whoever is responsible for playing Ogbuehi over this combo needs fired yesterday.

were the o line problems as directly related to Og as they appeared yetsreday with him not playing???

(12-05-2016, 10:42 AM)Au165 Wrote: I saw Winston get beat often, he didn't give up a sack but he wasn't good either. I want to see more Fisher and then go from there.

Yes, he was serviceable, as I said......and ANYTHING is better than Ogbuehi, wouldn't you agree?  I would like to see more of Fisher too.

(12-05-2016, 10:43 AM)bengals67 Wrote: were the o line problems as directly related to Og as they appeared yetsreday with him not playing???

He sure seems to be a big part of it.  Bodine had a pretty nice game too, which helps.  When they give Dalton time, and open holes in the run game (see Burkhead's long run), this offense is still pretty explosive.

I thought Winston did a good job. There is no reason to play Ogb anymore this season. As Ross Tucker said this morning on Sirius.... "He has proven he is soft"

(12-05-2016, 10:48 AM)Wyche Wrote: Yes, he was serviceable, as I said......and ANYTHING is better than Ogbuehi, wouldn't you agree?  I would like to see more of Fisher too.


He sure seems to be a big part of it.  Bodine had a pretty nice game too, which helps.  When they give Dalton time, and open holes in the run game (see Burkhead's long run), this offense is still pretty explosive.

Could that be because Bodine was uncovered, facing an even front?  Seems that most of his woes come from playing against NTs in the 3-4.

(12-05-2016, 11:17 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I thought Winston did a good job. There is no reason to play Ogb anymore this season. As Ross Tucker said this morning on Sirius.... "He has proven he is soft"

Agree.  He needs to get stronger and tougher.  They need to go back to the drawing board and figure out how to get something out of him.  I don't care if it's a position switch or just some added size and strength.  Unfortunately, he's way too much of a liability to have out there right now.

Starting to wonder if his injury history is preventing him from doing the kind of heavy training he needs to get up to par with playing in the NFL.

(12-05-2016, 11:19 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Could that be because Bodine was uncovered, facing an even front?  Seems that most of his woes come from playing against NTs in the 3-4.

That's a bad deal in this division.

(12-05-2016, 11:19 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Could that be because Bodine was uncovered, facing an even front?  Seems that most of his woes come from playing against NTs in the 3-4.

I'm sure that has a lot to do with it.  Even so, he's still better than Ogbuehi.

That said, we're still not discussing the giant elephant in the room......who is responsible for essentially tanking our season by playing Ogbuehi over these two?

(12-05-2016, 10:40 AM)Wyche Wrote: He was in rotation with Fisher.  They were solid in pass pro, and serviceable in the run game.  Whoever is responsible for playing Ogbuehi over this combo needs fired yesterday.

I will give you solid in pass pro.   As far as "serviceable in the run game," Bengals had 71 yards running on 31 carries for a robust 2.3 avg.  Hill was 1.4.  I guess it depends on what your definition of "serviceable" is.  

For whatever reasons, we absolutely suck at running the ball.   

(12-05-2016, 11:34 AM)Speedy Thomas Wrote: I will give you solid in pass pro.   As far as "serviceable in the run game," Bengals had 71 yards running on 31 carries for a robust 2.3 avg.  Hill was 1.4.  I guess it depends on what your definition of "serviceable" is.  

For whatever reasons, we absolutely suck at running the ball.   

Yes, Hill struggled, Burkhead had a nice game, and there were defenders in the backfield on several plays, but compared to previous games, they were serviceable.  In other words, I should have worded it better, compared to the absolutely horrendous play of Ogbuehi, they were serviceable.

(12-05-2016, 11:34 AM)Speedy Thomas Wrote: I will give you solid in pass pro.   As far as "serviceable in the run game," Bengals had 71 yards running on 31 carries for a robust 2.3 avg.  Hill was 1.4.  I guess it depends on what your definition of "serviceable" is.  

For whatever reasons, we absolutely suck at running the ball.   

Truth.

Running game was fairly awful overall, but I will say.... First game this season with Ogbuehi not playing = first game this season with Dalton not taking a sack.

That's awfully telling. If the Bengals had cut Nugent in the offseason or even after his awful preseason, and gotten an average kicker, and had benched Ogbuehi when it was clear he was awful, the Bengals would easily be 6-6, if not 7-5. Two blatantly obvious moves and the season could be completely different.

Coaches need to be held accountable for those two blatant failures.

(12-05-2016, 11:34 AM)Speedy Thomas Wrote: I will give you solid in pass pro.   As far as "serviceable in the run game," Bengals had 71 yards running on 31 carries for a robust 2.3 avg.  Hill was 1.4.  I guess it depends on what your definition of "serviceable" is.  

For whatever reasons, we absolutely suck at running the ball.   

A huge part of the problem in the running game IMHO is playcalling/not knowing - understanding your players.

4 of Hill's runs were sweeps/pitches to the left outside, all but 1 on first down. Hill does not have the speed, elusiveness, moves to run outside. 4 or 5 of Hill's runs came with Dalton in the shotgun. Again Hill doesn't do well in the shotgun, he's a downhill one cut runner.

Zampese is not an NFL level OC, he's just flips thru the pages and slings something against the wall that he hasn't ran in awhile.

This isn't taking up for a very bad O-line in any way. But a part of the problem is a very sub-par OC.

(12-05-2016, 12:08 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: A huge part of the problem in the running game IMHO is playcalling/not knowing - understanding your players.

4 of Hill's runs were sweeps/pitches to the left outside, all but 1 on first down. Hill does not have the speed, elusiveness, moves to run outside. 4 or 5 of Hill's runs came with Dalton in the shotgun. Again Hill doesn't do well in the shotgun, he's a downhill one cut runner.

Zampese is not an NFL level OC, he's just flips thru the pages and slings something against the wall that he hasn't ran in awhile.

This isn't taking up for a very bad O-line in any way. But a part of the problem is a very sub-par OC.

A downhill one cut runner who likes to pretend he's Darren Sproles despite being physically incapable of doing so, and goes down with shocking ease/avoid contact with shocking regularity for a 235lb RB.

So a theoretical downhill one cut runner. Lol

Jeremy Hill could probably be a pretty good RB if he just had a different mentality. If he ran with a Marshawn Lynch-ish anger, there's not too many DBs who would be pleased with the prospect of tackling a 235 pound guy over and over. Don't think you can coach that though, you either have it, or you don't.

(12-05-2016, 11:52 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Truth.

Running game was fairly awful overall, but I will say.... First game this season with Ogbuehi not playing = first game this season with Dalton not taking a sack.

That's awfully telling. If the Bengals had cut Nugent in the offseason or even after his awful preseason, and gotten an average kicker, and had benched Ogbuehi when it was clear he was awful, the Bengals would easily be 6-6, if not 7-5. Two blatantly obvious moves and the season could be completely different.

Coaches need to be held accountable for those two blatant failures.

Amazing fact isn't it ?????

We could easily have 2 more wins maybe 3 and be right in the thick of it with two High School level coaching decisions. But ML/PA loyalty, refusing to admit they're wrong and we're out of it for all intents and purposes.

If they aren't held accountable for this ?????

(12-05-2016, 12:13 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: A downhill one cut runner who likes to pretend he's Darren Sproles despite being physically incapable of doing so, and goes down with shocking ease/avoid contact with shocking regularity for a 235lb RB.

So a theoretical downhill one cut runner. Lol

Jeremy Hill could probably be a pretty good RB if he just had a different mentality. If he ran with a Marshawn Lynch-ish anger, there's not too many DBs who would be pleased with the prospect of tackling a 235 pound guy over and over. Don't think you can coach that though, you either have it, or you don't.

Oh I'm in no way defending Hill ! He's a big part of the problem as well, I fully agree. I was a big Hill backer before this season but my eyes are opening wide.

On the very first play of the game there's a hole open to the right you could drive a Mack Truck thru and Hill dances around and runs into a lineman's back for 1 yard. How he didn't see the hole ???

I've all but given up on Hill, like you say he wants to be a scat and he just isn't. And you have to wonder if that's just avoiding contact ?

Those arguing sweeps and tosses for Hill are bad play calling are off base. One cut runners are supposed to be able to go outside then find the crease, cut, and work up field. The issue is two fold, bad blocking and lack of vision for hill but just because Hill isn't a burner doesn't mean he can't go outside. If you don't keep them honest with outside runs then they collapse down and nothing works.

(12-05-2016, 12:37 PM)Au165 Wrote: Those arguing sweeps and tosses for Hill are bad play calling are off base. One cut runners are supposed to be able to go outside then find the crease, cut, and work up field. The issue is two fold, bad blocking and lack of vision for hill but just because Hill isn't a burner doesn't mean he can't go outside. If you don't keep them honest with outside runs then they collapse down and nothing works.

Anywhere but in the NFL that would be true. Hill does not possess the speed to run outside on sweeps and pitches - period !

Off tackle runs with Dalton under center sure.

(12-05-2016, 11:17 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I thought Winston did a good job. There is no reason to play Ogb anymore this season. As Ross Tucker said this morning on Sirius.... "He has proven he is soft"

Ogbuehi and Fisher can't anchor for crap.