Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise

(01-05-2017, 12:50 AM)bfine32 Wrote: [ -> ]Why do folks come up with this narrative that the Bengals let their good players walk? I have to go all the way back to Evan Mathis to think of a valuable player they let walk.

As to the OP: Of course I'd bring big Dre back.

Marvin Jones.... 

(01-05-2017, 01:20 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: [ -> ]Marvin Jones.... 

Did not leave for money. What did you want the team to do, bench AJ so Marvin could be #1 receiver???

The team loses free agents because they lowball them and then when a team gets ready to sign them they try to match the offer (Marvin Jones). Too late. Just like J.Joe, those free agents go tour the top notch facility, indoor practice bubble, they get towels that fit, free water, no Gatorade limits, cable during training camp, They don't; have to practice on fields under bridges breathing exhaust from passing vehicles and trucks. When there is bad weather and they only have 2 hour practice window due to cba, they don't have to spend 30 minutes to travel to a college teasms bubble, and 30 minutes to travel back leaving them 1 hour of practice. The grass is a lot greener elsewhere. We can't compete. We do a lot better when we sigh them before they reach free agency. A bidding war and we are pretty much done. That's why we end up signing the Dansby's, Hawks, Sims, Gilberry's of the world. Nobody wants our "big ticket" free agent signings.


Bengals need to quit lowballing players with initial offers, and then trying to match offer when they are already gone and woooed by another team.

(01-04-2017, 02:15 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: [ -> ]There are rumblings that the Bengals will either retain Whitworth or Zeitler. I'd prefer Zeitler as he is younger. That means we would have 2 Tackle spots to fill.

I'd prefer to not have to use a 1st Round pick on one. I think Fisher can hold down 1 spot.

Assuming Smith's arm is healed, would you bring him back for 2-3 years?

Andre is a RT and not a Guard. We should bring back Whitworth, he is a LT which is Dalton's blindside and he will
be cheaper and has not fell off yet. He is our best Lineman, better than Zeitler who had a tough year. Sure Zeitler
was in between Og and Bodine most of the year but still, he had his troubles.

Not against bringing back Andre at RT though for insurance in case Og is a major bust.

Need a new O-line coach to coach up Westerman or another Guard in case Zeit leaves.

Jim O has alluded to Zeitler leaving and us paying Kirkpatrick instead. This is the way i am leaning whether i like it
or not. This is probably what will happen. I don't think Zeitler deserves top Guard money after last years showing.

(01-05-2017, 02:24 PM)Sled21 Wrote: [ -> ]Did not leave for money. What did you want the team to do, bench AJ so Marvin could be #1 receiver???

Marvin Jones as a #2 WR: 103 targets - 65 catches - 816 yards - 4 TDs
Marvin Jones as a #1 WR: 103 targets - 55 catches - 930 yards - 4 TDs
JoJo LaFell  as  a  #2 WR: 107 targets - 64 catches - 862 yards - 6 TDs

Why did Jones leave again? He certainly didn't gain anything by leaving. He is who he is.

To the OP: Yes I'd take Andre back (I didn't want him gone in the first place), but I just don't see the Bengals crawling back to their old guy after they drafted his replacement. It's a bad look. Plus who knows how Andre feels.

(01-05-2017, 03:14 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: [ -> ]Marvin Jones as a #2 WR: 103 targets - 65 catches - 816 yards - 4 TDs
Marvin Jones as a #1 WR: 103 targets - 55 catches - 930 yards - 4 TDs
JoJo LaFell  as  a  #2 WR: 107 targets - 64 catches - 862 yards - 6 TDs

Why did Jones leave again? He certainly didn't gain anything by leaving. He is who he is.

To the OP: Yes I'd take Andre back (I didn't want him gone in the first place), but I just don't see the Bengals crawling back to their old guy after they drafted his replacement. It's a bad look. Plus who knows how Andre feels.

Right, but he thought he was going to be the man in Detroit..... he left for fame.

(01-05-2017, 03:19 PM)Sled21 Wrote: [ -> ]Right, but he thought he was going to be the man in Detroit..... he left for fame.

He's fragile. He did have some big games early in the year in Detroit...he's just too fragile to play 16 games and be counted on.

Remember how he missed a year here with an ankle injury?

(01-05-2017, 03:50 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: [ -> ]He's fragile. He did have some big games early in the year in Detroit...he's just too fragile to play 16 games and be counted on.

Remember how he missed a year here with an ankle injury?

Good point. Nice seeing Lafell play all year.

(01-05-2017, 03:50 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: [ -> ]He's fragile. He did have some big games early in the year in Detroit...he's just too fragile to play 16 games and be counted on.

Remember how he missed a year here with an ankle injury?

He did have a couple big games early, then he pretty much disappeared, which has been his MO since entering the league. He's never been a #1 dating back to his days at Cal where Keenan Allen was the man. Detroit overpaid due to Calvin's sudden retirement.

(01-05-2017, 03:14 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: [ -> ]To the OP: Yes I'd take Andre back (I didn't want him gone in the first place), but I just don't see the Bengals crawling back to their old guy after they drafted his replacement. It's a bad look. Plus who knows how Andre feels.

This is why I don't see Andre coming back. I think there's 0 interest between either side. I don't think the team was ever thrilled with the way he handled himself. Also, we can't forget that Andre sat on the open market for a while in 2013. The Bengals had their offer on the table and he was holding out hope for anything else. It took us bringing him into the draft room and showing him the guy we were going to draft to replace him. That meant his only "big" money offer would come off the table.

(01-05-2017, 04:51 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: [ -> ]He did have a couple big games early, then he pretty much disappeared, which has been his MO since entering the league. He's never been a #1 dating back to his days at Cal where Keenan Allen was the man. Detroit overpaid due to Calvin's sudden retirement.

I think Eifert is falling into a similar boat to Jones with the Bengals. I like Eifert and when he plays he's really good...but he misses A LOT of games. Probably too many to justify paying a large contract to.

(01-05-2017, 09:22 AM)Sled21 Wrote: [ -> ]The Bengals offered Jones the money, he wanted to be a #1. Can't blame the organization for that one.

Eh, but they could have been proactive and avoided letting him get to that point. Same thing happened with Jonathan Joseph. Signed for close to the same money but the Texans seemed more interested in having him. Why wait? Why not look at a good player and get them signed before it's a competition with other teams.

I'd bring Andre back if I was confident in his health.

2 words come to mind about an andre return.

HELL NO!!!!!!

(01-05-2017, 04:51 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: [ -> ]He did have a couple big games early, then he pretty much disappeared, which has been his MO since entering the league. He's never been a #1 dating back to his days at Cal where Keenan Allen was the man. Detroit overpaid due to Calvin's sudden retirement.

I don't think they overpaid that was market value for him and he was the hottest fa wide receive. remember hes on a whole new team I think next year he breaks the 1000 yard make before postseason. hell break it this year with the playoffs.

It depends.

If the Bengals want to be a run-first team then bringing Andre Smith back makes eminently good sense because he is a defensive end-destroying outside linebacker-flattening road grader on run plays. Once Andre left for Minnesota the Bengals immediately had issues running to the right. The last time Jeremy Hill or Giovani Bernard broke a big run to the right was about a year ago.

However, if Cincinnati wants to predominantly become a passing offense, Andre Smith doesn't make sense to come back at right offensive tackle because spin moves from that direction get him turned around but...

...if Andrew Whitworth leaves to pursue a Super Bowl title, that leaves an open vacancy at left tackle and I would be open to bringing Andre back in that capacity. Why? It's his natural position, that's why! At Alabama he was amazing at left tackle, much more mobile, and he kept his quarterback protected from the blind side. That would put Jake Fisher at right tackle where he was effective on both pass and run plays so the offensive line in 2017 would presumably look like this:

LT: Andre Smith
LG: Clint Boling (or TJ Johnson)
C: TJ Johnson (or Pat Elflein)
RG: Kevin Zeitler
RT: Jake Fisher

This means saying bye-bye to Cedric Ogbuehi and Russell Bodine.

(01-05-2017, 10:49 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: [ -> ]Eh, but they could have been proactive and avoided letting him get to that point. Same thing happened with Jonathan Joseph. Signed for close to the same money but the Texans seemed more interested in having him. Why wait? Why not look at a good player and get them signed before it's a competition with other teams.

I know this is how i would do it.

I don't understand not being proactive. It would save the team money not having to compete for a player.

Edit: But this is not Madden either and it actually helped us out a couple times. We were going to pay MJ more than
Dunlap and settled for Dunlap for heck sake! Thank God that worked out for us with clearly the better End!

Also what Sled here is true as well. MLJ wanted #1 money and he was not worth it. We offered him too much IMHO.

(01-06-2017, 11:50 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: [ -> ]It depends.

If the Bengals want to be a run-first team then bringing Andre Smith back makes eminently good sense because he is a defensive end-destroying outside linebacker-flattening road grader on run plays.  Once Andre left for Minnesota the Bengals immediately had issues running to the right.  The last time Jeremy Hill or Giovani Bernard broke a big run to the right was about a year ago.

However, if Cincinnati wants to predominantly become a passing offense, Andre Smith doesn't make sense to come back at right offensive tackle because spin moves from that direction get him turned around but...

...if Andrew Whitworth leaves to pursue a Super Bowl title, that leaves an open vacancy at left tackle and I would be open to bringing Andre back in that capacity.  Why?  It's his natural position, that's why!  At Alabama he was amazing at left tackle, much more mobile, and he kept his quarterback protected from the blind side.  That would put Jake Fisher at right tackle where he was effective on both pass and run plays so the offensive line in 2017 would presumably look like this:

LT: Andre Smith
LG: Clint Boling (or TJ Johnson)
C: TJ Johnson (or Pat Elflein)
RG: Kevin Zeitler
RT: Jake Fisher

This means saying bye-bye to Cedric Ogbuehi and Russell Bodine.

College is different than the NFL FIK. Whit better be back at LT, Andre would be a major downgrade there.

Also, the monster run against the Browns was to the right off Zeitler i am pretty sure.

Also, the Vikings sure had their problems running the ball this year, worse than us i am pretty sure.

Would love for us to draft Elfein or Toth at Center, just doubt it if we have PA, need to get rid of PA and everything will be better
and this might actually work. If we had say Munoz working with these guys it would be different but PA working with Andre at LT
instead of Whit, TJ Johnson instead of a talented C and Fisher at RT sounds like a worse season than last year.

(01-05-2017, 10:49 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: [ -> ]Eh, but they could have been proactive and avoided letting him get to that point. Same thing happened with Jonathan Joseph. Signed for close to the same money but the Texans seemed more interested in having him. Why wait? Why not look at a good player and get them signed before it's a competition with other teams.

How is timing going to affect Jone's desire to be the #1 receiver on a team? It's not. Jones left because he wanted to be #1. The only thing the Bengals could have done to satisfy that desire would have been to bench Green, because Jones is never going to be a #1 on a team with AJ....

not unless he was cheap, like the beers on Thirsty Thursday

I would bring back Andre asap if he is 100% healthy.