(01-04-2017, 04:02 PM)Shady Wrote: I wouldn't re-sign Smith. We moved on with Fischer and Ced (oh well). We need to focus on re-signing Whit to a contract that would ensure he retires in stripes. He can play LT until he says he's ready to move inside or retire. Yes, we need a back up, but that's always true.

Zeitler is also a priority, but with PacMan's situation, I'd be more concerned about keeping Dre K. I don't know how much money they'll have to keep both, plus I think we need to be more aggressive in FA this year. I know we always say that, but I'd rather sign Veteran Olinemen who are worth a damn rather than drafting a rookie to have to groom for a year or more. I don't know if that applies to Centers. TJ Johnson might be better than Bodine, but we need a legit starting Center. Rookie or FA? I lean toward FA, but I've read you guys saying great things about the kid from Ohio State.

Prince Amukamara will be available in free agency, maybe this is the last ordeal with pacman, we move on somehow because of a contract issue that was withheld, and we keep Fitz, and add Prince...a fan can dream right?   

(01-04-2017, 04:44 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Drafting a LT in the 1st Round would be a huge waste. There are so many other elite players at that pick that could help the team.

I wouldn't call gaining a young starter on the worst position group last year exactly a waste.

Would I a prefer a Safety like Hooker, a LB like Foster, or a pass rusher DE like Barnett in the first round, Hell YEAH.

However if they have to grab Cam Robinson who could be the hier to Whit, and prob slide to either Guard spot in the mean time a waste?

Not so much.

(01-04-2017, 05:03 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Why in the hell can't we sign both?  We'll have over $40 million in cap space.

Bengals logic.



We have a little over $47 million right now. The cap is supposedly going up by ~$10 million. So now we're up to $57 million. There is absolutely no reason to keep Maualuga and he would free up $3.7 million. Hell, Pacman could bring in $6 million if you designate him as a post-June 1st cut. Bottom line is there is no reason for us to not re-sign Whit, Dre, and Zeitler.

I know the Bengals like to talk about saving money for extensions. So that would lump in Eifert and Burfict. That's it. No other potential 2018 free agent is going to command a lot of money.

(01-04-2017, 05:31 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: Bengals logic.



We have a little over $47 million right now. The cap is supposedly going up by ~$10 million. So now we're up to $57 million. There is absolutely no reason to keep Maualuga and he would free up $3.7 million. Hell, Pacman could bring in $6 million if you designate him as a post-June 1st cut. Bottom line is there is no reason for us to not re-sign Whit, Dre, and Zeitler.

I know the Bengals like to talk about saving money for extensions. So that would lump in Eifert and Burfict. That's it. No other potential 2018 free agent is going to command a lot of money.

Agreed, let Whit sign a two year deal that is good enough to keep him home with us (he knows he's on the back nine but still wants to play), figure something out at RT and resign Zeitler and Kirkpatrick. The game day threads will be boring without the regulars calling for Kirk to be benched....

I understand the youth movement and figured the Bengals would only keep one (they seem to always make it an either or thing). I just think it's easier to replace a rg then it is a lt. And I agree, no to the wasted 1st round pick on one.

Whit would be my choice if we had to choose. As long as we get Dre back. I hate to lose Z but we may be better repaired to replace him (Westermen, Johnson) then we are Whit.

Maybe we'll use the tag on someone now that Nuge is gone. That'll probably be spun as our aggressive move and surely would take us out the running for signing (dare I say) two of the big 3. So who knows if that's a good option.

(01-04-2017, 09:38 PM)jj22 Wrote: I understand the youth movement and figured the Bengals would only keep one (they seem to always make it an either or thing). I just think it's easier to replace a rg then it is a lt. And I agree, no to the wasted 1st round pick on one.

Whit would be my choice if we had to choose. As long as we get Dre back. I hate to lose Z but we may be better repaired to replace him (Westermen, Johnson) then we are Whit.

Maybe we'll use the tag on someone now that Nuge is gone. That'll probably be spun as our aggressive move and surely would take us out the running for signing (dare I say) two of the big 3. So who knows if that's a good option.

I agree with all that you said here ^

(01-04-2017, 02:15 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: There are rumblings that the Bengals will either retain Whitworth or Zeitler. I'd prefer Zeitler as he is younger. That means we would have 2 Tackle spots to fill.

I'd prefer to not have to use a 1st Round pick on one. I think Fisher can hold down 1 spot.

Assuming Smith's arm is healed, would you bring him back for 2-3 years?

I believe you mean two STARTING tackle spots fill. Maybe Fisher will learn to hold down the RT spot, but Og is barely a backup.

Why do folks come up with this narrative that the Bengals let their good players walk? I have to go all the way back to Evan Mathis to think of a valuable player they let walk.

As to the OP: Of course I'd bring big Dre back.

At the right price oh yeah.  They could stick him at RG on a short term deal to replace Zeitler and keep Whit.  That gives the best option to "win now" imo.  

(01-05-2017, 12:50 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Why do folks come up with this narrative that the Bengals let their good players walk? I have to go all the way back to Evan Mathis to think of a valuable player they let walk.

As to the OP: Of course I'd bring big Dre back.

Did you forget last year when Marvin Jones left and Sanu, and Reggie Nelson, and Leon Hall?

(01-04-2017, 09:38 PM)jj22 Wrote: I understand the youth movement and figured the Bengals would only keep one (they seem to always make it an either or thing). I just think it's easier to replace a rg then it is a lt. And I agree, no to the wasted 1st round pick on one.

Whit would be my choice if we had to choose. As long as we get Dre back. I hate to lose Z but we may be better repaired to replace him (Westermen, Johnson) then we are Whit.

Maybe we'll use the tag on someone now that Nuge is gone. That'll probably be spun as our aggressive move and surely would take us out the running for signing (dare I say) two of the big 3. So who knows if that's a good option.

I dont get it. How is it a waste? We have the 9th pick because we sucked. Our OL is a major reason for us having the 9th overall pick. I wouldnt consider drafting the guy who is the best OL in college football a waste.

Throwing a shitload of money at two guys so we can send out the same group we just sucked with seems kinda silly. 

I think we would be bidding against ourselves giving Whit a bunch of money. I want him back but paying out the ass to keep the oldest guy on a unit that underperformed doesnt seem like the right idea. 

I like Zeitler too. But 10 million a year for a guard is nuts.

I would take Andre back at the right price.

(01-04-2017, 02:34 PM)CINwillWIN Wrote: No doubt, I agree, I think he needs to be a big part of that. 

PFF has Zeitler ranked #8 overall of 2017 free-agents right now in a recognized list of 10:

8. Kevin Zeitler, G, Cincinnati Bengals

After being drafted in the first round in 2012, Zeitler (84.6) has played at least 800 snaps in all four years with the Bengals. Cincinnati picked up his fifth-year option this offseason, which will push him to 2017’s free-agent market. In all four seasons, he has graded above-average as a run-blocker and improved each year. He was the only right guard in 2015 with 500 or more pass-blocks and no sacks allowed.


LINK


10. David DeCastro, RG, Pittsburgh Steelers

While DeCastro (83.4) had a slow start to the season (as well as a slow end), he was the third best guard in football for the middle 12 weeks of the 2015 season, behind only Marshal Yanda and Richie Incognito. He is solid in both run- and pass-blocking situations, and is one of just 10 active guards with a PFF grade above 80.0 in both of those facets of play.



Bell, and DebagCastro are both up, should be an interesting off season for them.

DeCastro signed a 5yr/$50m extension right before the 2016 season started. It's actually why the Bengals and Zeitler broke off negotiations for an extension.

(01-05-2017, 03:18 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I dont get it. How is it a waste? We have the 9th pick because we sucked. Our OL is a major reason for us having the 9th overall pick. I wouldnt consider drafting the guy who is the best OL in college football a waste.

Throwing a shitload of money at two guys so we can send out the same group we just sucked with seems kinda silly. 

I think we would be bidding against ourselves giving Whit a bunch of money. I want him back but paying out the ass to keep the oldest guy on a unit that underperformed doesnt seem like the right idea. 

I like Zeitler too. But 10 million a year for a guard is nuts.

I would take Andre back at the right price.

This is where I stand on it. For $10m/yr, a guard better be an absolute monster, destroying everyone in sight all the time. Zeitler is an above average player, but I don't think he's worth spending $10m/yr on a guard for. Or even $9m/yr.



- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --


As to the OP, I am not sure about Andre. He's had troubles being fat and being hurt all his career, and sure enough last year he only played 4 games. He's played less than 10 games in 50% of his seasons so far, and started all 16 games in just 1 season in his career. That's not exactly reassuring. Plus he will be 30 in a few weeks.

The reason he left was because he wasn't very good in 2015, and kept getting destroyed by speed rushers. I'm not sure I see him as much of an upgrade over Winston.



I'd prefer someone like Byron Bell, who was the RT for the Titans this year as they tore up the league with their rushing attack and only allowed Mariota to be sacked 23 times. Turns 28 in a little over a week, and has missed 2 games in 5 years.

(01-05-2017, 01:38 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Did you forget last year when Marvin Jones left and Sanu, and Reggie Nelson, and Leon Hall?

The Bengals offered Jones the money, he wanted to be a #1. Can't blame the organization for that one.

(01-05-2017, 09:22 AM)Sled21 Wrote: The Bengals offered Jones the money, he wanted to be a #1. Can't blame the organization for that one.

Which he didn't even end up doing thanks to Golden Tate. 

(01-04-2017, 04:50 PM)CINwillWIN Wrote: Andrew Whitworth signed a 1 year, $9,000,000 contract with the Cincinnati Bengals, including a $2,000,000 signing bonus, $3,000,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $9,000,000. In 2016, Whitworth will earn a base salary of$5,800,000, a roster bonus of $1,000,000 and a workout bonus of $200,000.


Kevin Zeitler signed a 4 year, $7,544,200 contract with the Cincinnati Bengals, including a $3,926,692 signing bonus, $6,125,446 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $1,886,050. In 2016, Zeitler will earn a base salary of $8,070,000. Zeitler has a cap hit of $8,070,000 while his dead money value is $8,070,000.



numbers game.


Maybe we can franchise tag Zeitler, resign Whit on a two year deal...?

That is a very interesting idea.  It gives them a year to develop a replacement of Zeitler, and Guard is probably one of the lower paid positions to calculate the top 5 salary formula.  Kind of like when the Bengals franchised their kicker.  

I see Zeitler as just OK.  I certainly don't want believe he gets $10 million per year, like DeBagCastro (I love that and I'm stealing that).

EDIT:  It appears Guards are not broken out from OTs, and Cs in the calculation...which means roughly $14 million....not going to do that.

(01-05-2017, 12:50 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Why do folks come up with this narrative that the Bengals let their good players walk? I have to go all the way back to Evan Mathis to think of a valuable player they let walk.

As to the OP: Of course I'd bring big Dre back.

Justin Smith, Maddieu Williams, Takeo Spikes, Eric Steinbach, Nelson, Sanu, Jones, Andre Smith, Leon Hall...

It's the NFL. Guys leave. Happens to every team.

I think the big thing it shows is guys have to WANT to come back too. It's not all about money. Some guys just want a change of scenery.

(01-04-2017, 05:03 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Why in the hell can't we sign both?  We'll have over $40 million in cap space.

Well you need at least $30 million in injury money.  Everyone knows that.

(01-05-2017, 03:18 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I dont get it. How is it a waste? We have the 9th pick because we sucked. Our OL is a major reason for us having the 9th overall pick. I wouldnt consider drafting the guy who is the best OL in college football a waste.

Throwing a shitload of money at two guys so we can send out the same group we just sucked with seems kinda silly. 

I think we would be bidding against ourselves giving Whit a bunch of money. I want him back but paying out the ass to keep the oldest guy on a unit that underperformed doesnt seem like the right idea. 

I like Zeitler too. But 10 million a year for a guard is nuts.

I would take Andre back at the right price.

Because if you need a LT in this draft you are in serious trouble. This is a defensive draft. The weakest position is Tackle.

(01-04-2017, 04:54 PM)CINwillWIN Wrote: Agreed. 

Need experienced help now. Just a few steps away from going back to the post-season, we can't wait for a rookie to develop... I.E. the Ogbuehi experience of '16.

Im not sure I agree with your analysis that we are "just a few steps away from the post season". 

This team has a ton of holes on it. Offensive line, running back, linebacker, cornerback, defensive line depth. 

Its going to take more than a first round draft pick and the resigning of one of our current offensive lineman (who made up one of the worst offensive lines in football) to address all of those needs. 

(01-04-2017, 05:31 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: Bengals logic.



We have a little over $47 million right now. The cap is supposedly going up by ~$10 million. So now we're up to $57 million. There is absolutely no reason to keep Maualuga and he would free up $3.7 million. Hell, Pacman could bring in $6 million if you designate him as a post-June 1st cut. Bottom line is there is no reason for us to not re-sign Whit, Dre, and Zeitler.

I know the Bengals like to talk about saving money for extensions. So that would lump in Eifert and Burfict. That's it. No other potential 2018 free agent is going to command a lot of money.

I would not give Eiffert a large extension, personally. 

One of the best assets in football is availability. The dude is just never available and is constantly hurt.