(03-20-2021, 12:27 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: No. He isn't. Tier 1 guys are Pro-Bowl/All-Pro types. No one on that level was available in FA this year at corner. That is a silly argument.

Andre Drummond is the best C available at the trade deadline. Is he a tier 1 basketball player? Of course not.

I am sure there is a #1 prospect at DE in this year's draft. But he is not a tier 1 prospect (Young, Bosa, etc). See the difference?

WJ3 was ranked high on every single FA ranking list. He was absolutely a tier 1 guy. And the payday he got confirms that.

The hoops some of you will jump through to make excuses for this franchise are astounding.

We have made one single upgrade so far. One. That’s terrible for a team with some of the most cap space.

(03-20-2021, 12:31 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: When you're talking about something specific like free agency when players are available to change teams, it doesn't matter where you stand among overall players. What matters concerning #1 is who is available. That simply shows their value at this time. 

Exactly right. WJ3 was one of the BPA in FA. Hence tier 1 of free agency. Not the entire league.

(03-20-2021, 12:41 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: WJ3 was ranked high on every single FA ranking list. He was absolutely a tier 1 guy. And the payday he got confirms that.

The hoops some of you will jump through to make excuses for this franchise are astounding.

We have made one single upgrade so far. One. That’s terrible for a team with some of the most cap space.

The hoops that some of you will jump through to defend your negativity is equally as astounding. Jackson was not a tier 1 nfl corner. He may have been one of the better FA options available, but being the smartest person with Down Syndrome in a group home doesn't make you smart. The money he got paid doesn't make him a tier 1 nfl player either, there are plenty of overpaid players in the nfl who do not live up to their contract numbers. Jackson was an above average CB who most of the time played average with some flashes of higher play. He has average hands, and dropped many catchable balls he defended. So Wanes and Awuze may very well be upgrades at CB, you simply don't know yet since we haven't seen them play in our system. Maybe someday you'll look back on your life and realize that wallowing in negativity was probably not the best way to live. Good luck with that.

(03-20-2021, 09:59 AM)Beaker Wrote: The hoops that some of you will jump through to defend your negativity is equally as astounding. Jackson was not a tier 1 nfl corner. He may have been one of the better FA options available, but being the smartest person with Down Syndrome in a group home doesn't make you smart. The money he got paid doesn't make him a tier 1 nfl player either, there are plenty of overpaid players in the nfl who do not live up to their contract numbers. Jackson was an above average CB who most of the time played average with some flashes of higher play. He has average hands, and dropped many catchable balls he defended. So Wanes and Awuze may very well be upgrades at CB, you simply don't know yet since we haven't seen them play in our system. Maybe someday you'll look back on your life and realize that wallowing in negativity was probably not the best way to live. Good luck with that.

You’re not getting the whole idea of Tier 1 with respect to free agency. Scroll thru Goodberrys Twitter for an eloquent explanation

(03-20-2021, 10:05 AM)N_B Wrote: You’re not getting the whole idea of Tier 1 with respect to free agency.  Scroll thru Goodberrys Twitter for an eloquent explanation

I get it just fine. Youre missing my point. Tier 1 in FA does not mean tier 1 NFL player. Just means one of the better players in the currently available FA pool.

(03-19-2021, 08:25 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Like the fact that we still have two massive holes at OG, and Auden Tate is currently the starting WR3?

We would win games if we didn't add another OL and what we have stays healthy.

Might start the year with Jonah, MJ, Price, Adeniji, Reiff and I wouldn't feel bad about it.

The team is definitely doing some good things, but lets be honest...it's not like we are leaps and bounds better this year than last year. Hell, I'm still not even sure we are better after these few FA moves.

We downgraded from 2/3 best players on defense. WJ3 and Carl Lawson. We replaced them with inferior, cheaper talent.

I give them kudos for the Reiff signing - but that was just a moved they HAD to make. They still have over 20 million in cap space, if we go into the draft with that much cap space and no more improvements its inexcusable.

There is still a lot to be done in my opinion.

(03-20-2021, 09:59 AM)Beaker Wrote: The hoops that some of you will jump through to defend your negativity is equally as astounding. Jackson was not a tier 1 nfl corner. He may have been one of the better FA options available, but being the smartest person with Down Syndrome in a group home doesn't make you smart. The money he got paid doesn't make him a tier 1 nfl player either, there are plenty of overpaid players in the nfl who do not live up to their contract numbers. Jackson was an above average CB who most of the time played average with some flashes of higher play. He has average hands, and dropped many catchable balls he defended. So Wanes and Awuze may very well be upgrades at CB, you simply don't know yet since we haven't seen them play in our system. Maybe someday you'll look back on your life and realize that wallowing in negativity was probably not the best way to live. Good luck with that.

You people are nuts. WJ3 was absolutely a tier 1 guy. EVERY analysis and tier spreadsheet I've seen has had him there. Below is a link to the tiers that Joe Goodbery has been using. 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vRwCmwklfJA9iGSn_OedkalXdLBgtRxOFx_6b55QQu0wawAt9cMCyKvJ0KMF8l-fhisQG7MVm5fzI7N/pubhtml

(03-20-2021, 10:08 AM)Beaker Wrote: I get it just fine. Youre missing my point. Tier 1 in FA does not mean tier 1 NFL player. Just means one of the better players in the currently available FA pool.

This is what we have been trying to say. It's all relative to the free agent class. That being said, WJ3 was a tier 1 free agent and we replaced him with a tier 3 guy. We replaced Carl Lawson who was a tier 1 free agent with a tier 2 guy. We added Hilton who is a tier 3 guy. 

We literally downgraded at every position other than the Reiff signing. 

(03-20-2021, 10:33 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: We literally downgraded at every position other than the Reiff signing. 

I may agree with you later, but until we see them play in our system, with our coaches, and our roster around them, I cannot call them a downgrade.

(03-20-2021, 12:41 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: WJ3 was ranked high on every single FA ranking list. He was absolutely a tier 1 guy. And the payday he got confirms that.

The hoops some of you will jump through to make excuses for this franchise are astounding.

We have made one single upgrade so far. One. That’s terrible for a team with some of the most cap space.

you are completely correct. We've made 1 upgrade to our roster so far. Honestly the best record I see with this group is 9-8 and that's IF they remain healthy. Theres absolutely 0 depth on this team. You have 2 WR...missing 2 quality guards on the OL...on defense the fa signings we made are either equal to or less than what we had previously IMO.  Plus Lou's the DC. So that automatically puts then in the bottom half of NFL defenses. 

I'm not being negative in being honest and a realist. If you can't open your eyes and say this team needs a lot more pieces before their playoff quality I don't know what to say.

This is Zacs team now. He's drafted and brought on in free agency guys who fit the style of play. If he can't make the playoffs after 3 years of rebuilding maybe he should ask Marvin Lewia for some tips because Marvin had his guys in the playoffs 3 year after he took over. He'll he almost qualified in 2004 too at 8-8.

(03-19-2021, 01:08 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: What is happening?
Back to back active years in free agency?
Letting familiar players go for better and / or cheaper alternatives?
Exercising the team's ability to get out of deals with crappy or aging players before the contract expires?
Former greats recruiting for the team aggressively ?
A QB wining and dining a FA lineman who might keep him upright?
Maybe ring of honor?
New Uniforms?
Back to back active years in free agency?

Thoughts ?

Now that you mention it....

I wonder if one of us just snapped and murdered Mr. Brown, filet him, and is walking around making decisions in a Mike Brown suit. 

Hmmmm.  Haven't heard from Holic in a while?

(03-19-2021, 01:32 PM)grampahol Wrote: I dunno..If they suddenly become a winning franchise and remain there for years to come I might miss my own negativity towards the team.. I remember putting a hatchet in my knee a few years ago.. That hurt like hell, but after awhile I got used to it and when it stopped hurting I kind of missed that dull ache.. It'll be like missing that B*TCH you argued with every day after she runs off with some fat slob.. 

It is hard to imagine getting used to a hatchet in the knee.   And how to you how are you able to put a pair of pants on?

(03-20-2021, 10:14 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: We would win games if we didn't add another OL and what we have stays healthy.

Might start the year with Jonah, MJ, Price, Adeniji, Reiff and I wouldn't feel bad about it.

That would be one the worst IOL’s in the entire league.

I think people are a little too caught up in the activity and not evaluating if the activity is actually improving the team.

WJ III, Alexander, etc - probably better than Hilton & Awuzie. Best case it’s probably a push.

Lawson + Hendrickson? Awesome. Hendrickson instead of Lawson? Downgrade. At least a small one.

Reiff over Hart is a huge W. The fat guy that hangs out near our dunkin is an improvement over Hart.

Ogunjobi is a tick ahead of Adkins, and I only give him that because I truly believe Atkins has been sandbagging and will find a 2nd wind.

Green and Ross gone, won’t miss either. If we somehow get GollaDEY it’s a big upgrade. If not, we’re probably looking at a WR in the first 2 rounds.

Last year they clearly upgraded in a few areas. Atkins, Ross, Hart and Green are additions by subtraction. But we’re not even marginally better on paper.

Bring in Trai, Golladay or another legit starter and I think we get a passing grade. But we, as fans, are a little too distracted by the flashing lights and loud noises.

(03-20-2021, 12:41 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: WJ3 was ranked high on every single FA ranking list. He was absolutely a tier 1 guy. And the payday he got confirms that.

The hoops some of you will jump through to make excuses for this franchise are astounding.

We have made one single upgrade so far. One. That’s terrible for a team with some of the most cap space.

While technically you're right, it still comes down to I wasn't ok with giving WJ3 a massive pay hike for doing the same thing he's been doing since he got he... Let Washington do that. I don't think we've improved a ton in free agency either, but it's not the be all end all. We know we need guards, pass rushers, and depth everywhere, but I feel the number 5 pick is a lil more opened up (I still take Sewell if he's there), Pollack is back, and Burrow and Higgins should take that year 2 leap. We'll see what happens.

(03-20-2021, 10:37 AM)Beaker Wrote: I may agree with you later, but until we see them play in our system, with our coaches, and our roster around them, I cannot call them a downgrade.

If you already agreed that NFL and FA tiering is a thing--which you did--and is exactly what was being said, then you have to agree that they "downgraded" in respect to FA loss/signings. 

That doesn't mean they will be a weaker or worse team. Those players that were picked up could very well end up helping the team be more successful, but it's kind of a cop out to say you can't call them a down grade and you'll have to wait and see. 

(03-19-2021, 01:08 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: What is happening?
Back to back active years in free agency?
Letting familiar players go for better and / or cheaper alternatives?
Exercising the team's ability to get out of deals with crappy or aging players before the contract expires?
Former greats recruiting for the team aggressively ?
A QB wining and dining a FA lineman who might keep him upright?
Maybe ring of honor?
New Uniforms?
Back to back active years in free agency?

Thoughts ?

The Reiff signing was the one that turned this FA around IMO. Before that it wasn't a great FA by no means.

I love the Hendrickson signing as I think he is an upgrade over a possibly hurt Lawson who doesn't get sacks.

The Awuzie signing isn't an upgrade over WJ3, but a band aid. The Hilton signing might be an upgrade over Mack.

We will see, I still think we need a Guard to really believe in this being a great FA.

Good one though, with Reiff. Needed to happen, this opens up the Draft quite a bit more but I still take Sewell if he is 
there at 5. But if he isn't I have no problem taking Pitts or Chase there and getting a Guard or Tackle in the 2nd. I still
want another pass rusher in here too. 

But yes, this is much more active then we have been in the past in FA. Not saying much though.

Only one The BengalsBoard is going from an outstanding player, who cannot stay healthy (Lawson) , to an All-Pro (Hendrickson) at the position a downgrade. And spare us the whining about "He's not AP All Pro" because if you are first team All Pro from any of the 3 organizations, the NFL recognizes you as an All Pro and lists you in the record books as such. Meanwhile Lawson's history points to him on schedule for being injured again this year. Upgrade

Secondly, As good as WJIII is in man coverage, he still struggles in zone, which is what Anarumo is obviously staffing his backfield to play a lot of. Upgrade

Waynes, Hilton and Awuzie instead of WWIII and Alexander and Sims- Upgrade

We have our RT and LT now. All we have to do is draft a guard. If we get Sewell/Slater the line will be Williams, Sewell/Slater, Hopkins, XFS, Reiff. Upgrade

(03-20-2021, 01:52 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: If you already agreed that NFL and FA tiering is a thing--which you did--and is exactly what was being said, then you have to agree that they "downgraded" in respect to FA loss/signings. 

That doesn't mean they will be a weaker or worse team. Those players that were picked up could very well end up helping the team be more successful, but it's kind of a cop out to say you can't call them a down grade and you'll have to wait and see. 

Not a cop out at all. I am saying I dont think they are a downgrade....but I may be proven wrong if they play worse than the players they replaced. But I wont know that until I see them play.