(03-12-2021, 12:42 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I saw a guy posting about this on one of the BBQ forums I visit. He was recently at Franklin's, and got to go back into the kitchen and talk to Aaron and his GM. They do not use beef tallow, and they do not rewrap anytime in the process. The reason their briskets are so moist is he uses high humidity warmers where the briskets sit at 140 for 8-12 hours after coming off the smoker. They take the briskets off at midnight, put them in the high humidity warmer and let them self baste until they open at 11 the following morning. So, if you want a brisket like Franklin makes, stop buying tallow and save up for a $5000.00+ humidity controlled warming oven.

Guessing it's an Alto-Sham.

See my posts about making ribs in the oven in George Cantstandya's thread about crock pot ribs here:
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Crockpot-Pork-Loin-Back-Ribs

You could do the same thing with a smoked brisket and a few ounces of water in the bottom of the roasting pan to simulate the environment in the Sham in your kitchen oven.

The weather was beautiful here on Saturday (low-70s), so I got my smoke in before the next snow rolled through yesterday (I've got 8" on the ground currently --- gotta love Denver springs!).

I smoked as usual, but added some tallow when wrapping. Here are my results:

• The brisket bark was softer as a result of the added fat mingling with it instead of just rendering inside. The exception were the corners which didn't touch the paper directly and had crunchy/dry bark.
• The brisket itself was very moist, but I don't know that it was any more moist than what I normally would get. I've never had an issue with a dry brisket, but was wondering if this technique might push it over the edge. Particularly the flat with less marbled fat. I didn't feel it made a significant difference, though I only smoked one so couldn't really A/B them and I'm just going off memory of what I typically smoke.
  

Now it was just one experiment and to be honest when I started trimming the brisket Friday night I had already decided it wasn't going to be the best brisket (only able to grab a Choice, and though you can make a mighty fine Choice brisket, the reality for me is that they're just never quite as good, especially in the flat, as a Prime). The results in the end were about what I thought they'd be. I'm looking forward to trying again before too terribly long, however.

I will say that I've been giving some thought the other supposed Franklin method of high-humidity oven. I haven't tried it at all, but thinking about it while I smoked and ate the brisket over the weekend, I don't necessarily like it. I think I'd run into the same issue I had this weekend of a soft bark from all the moisture. Additionally, if you have a leaner brisket so there's less fat to render, it won't end up any more "moist" in the end, just "wet" (and I would consider them as two separate things).

So I guess I see it as two different approaches, depending on what you're dealing with. If you have a super well marbled brisket and need to keep it warm for hours on end, using a high humidity oven would prevent it from drying out, and you'd already have the rendered fat to make it moist. If the brisket has less fat inside of it, adding some tallow (or butter or other fat) will help add moisture.

Also, I made some Oklahoma style onion burgers last week and cooked them in tallow and wooooow, they were amazing.

(03-22-2021, 11:55 AM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: The weather was beautiful here on Saturday (low-70s), so I got my smoke in before the next snow rolled through yesterday (I've got 8" on the ground currently --- gotta love Denver springs!).  

I smoked as usual, but added some tallow when wrapping.  Here are my results:

• The brisket bark was softer as a result of the added fat mingling with it instead of just rendering inside. The exception were the corners which didn't touch the paper directly and had crunchy/dry bark.  
• The brisket itself was very moist, but I don't know that it was any more moist than what I normally would get.  I've never had an issue with a dry brisket, but was wondering if this technique might push it over the edge.  Particularly the flat with less marbled fat.  I didn't feel it made a significant difference, though I only smoked one so couldn't really A/B them and I'm just going off memory of what I typically smoke.  
  

Now it was just one experiment and to be honest when I started trimming the brisket Friday night I had already decided it wasn't going to be the best brisket (only able to grab a Choice, and though you can make a mighty fine Choice brisket, the reality for me is that they're just never quite as good, especially in the flat, as a Prime).  The results in the end were about what I thought they'd be.  I'm looking forward to trying again before too terribly long, however.  

I will say that I've been giving some thought the other supposed Franklin method of high-humidity oven.  I haven't tried it at all, but thinking about it while I smoked and ate the brisket over the weekend, I don't necessarily like it.  I think I'd run into the same issue I had this weekend of a soft bark from all the moisture.  Additionally, if you have a leaner brisket so there's less fat to render, it won't end up any more "moist" in the end, just "wet" (and I would consider them as two separate things).  

So I guess I see it as two different approaches, depending on what you're dealing with.  If you have a super well marbled brisket and need to keep it warm for hours on end, using a high humidity oven would prevent it from drying out, and you'd already have the rendered fat to make it moist.  If the brisket has less fat inside of it, adding some tallow (or butter or other fat) will help add moisture.

Also, I made some Oklahoma style onion burgers last week and cooked them in tallow and wooooow, they were amazing.

Thanks for the update.    I will say, that on the advertisement for Franklin's master Class, he is definitely squirting something on  butcher  paper.  It's pretty quick, so I don't know exactly what's going on.  The onion burgers sound really good.

Quick question.  How would you warm up a whole brisket?  I've got a couple of big ones, and since I don't want to get up in the middle of the night again, I'll probably be looking at finishing somewhere between 10:00 and midnight then just stashing the brisket (still wrapped) in a cooler or something overnight.  Can you just put it in the over at 250 until you hit 140 or 150?

Btw I now have to do fire management on my pellet.  Occasionally the thermometer loses its mind and starts climbing 5 degrees every few seconds, so I have to spray it with water before the machine shuts down due to overheating which isn't really happening.   I have one of those meat probes hanging out so I have an idea of what the real temperature is, so then if I want it hotter, I have to dial it in to hotter than what the thermometer thinks it is and vice versa for cooler.  Then all of a sudden the thermometer just bounces back to where it should be.  It's actually kind of fun except for the fact that I just bought the damn think in Oct. Certainly a big advantage of a stick burner. You aren't relying on electrical and mechanical devices.

Did a pork butt yesterday and wanted to try something a bit different. I ended up cooking it at 240 and let it go without wrapping it in foil at all. I got the best bark I've ever gotten but damn did it take a long time to finish. I put it on at 11 am and I pulled it at about 10 pm when it hit 196 degrees. I usually let it go until at least 200 degrees but I got sick of waiting. It stalled at 175 for like 2.5 hours. I loved the bark on it but not sure I have the patience to do that again without wrapping. It also turned out a bit dryer than the product I get when I wrap halfway through. I wish there was some kind of happy medium.

(03-22-2021, 01:00 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Thanks for the update.    I will say, that on the advertisement for Franklin's master Class, he is definitely squirting something on  butcher  paper.  It's pretty quick, so I don't know exactly what's going on.  The onion burgers sound really good.

Quick question.  How would you warm up a whole brisket?  I've got a couple of big ones, and since I don't want to get up in the middle of the night again, I'll probably be looking at finishing somewhere between 10:00 and midnight then just stashing the brisket (still wrapped) in a cooler or something overnight.  Can you just put it in the over at 250 until you hit 140 or 150?

Btw I now have to do fire management on my pellet.  Occasionally the thermometer loses its mind and starts climbing 5 degrees every few seconds, so I have to spray it with water before the machine shuts down due to overheating which isn't really happening.   I have one of those meat probes hanging out so I have an idea of what the real temperature is, so then if I want it hotter, I have to dial it in to hotter than what the thermometer thinks it is and vice versa for cooler.  Then all of a sudden the thermometer just bounces back to where it should be.  It's actually kind of fun except for the fact that I just bought the damn think in Oct.  Certainly a big advantage of a stick burner.  You aren't relying on electrical and mechanical devices.

I don't like staying up all night, either.  The method I started employing after many sleepless nights was putting the brisket (still wrapped) in the fridge while I get a good night's sleep and then unwrapping it and popping it in the oven the next day (I do that because I'm not going to eat it until dinner the next day and I have zero confidence my brisket will stay within safe temps for 18 hours inside of a cooler).  250* oven, usually takes 3-4 hours to get up to ~145.  In the past, I've added some butter on top when I've gone to do the reheat to make sure it doesn't dry out.  I wouldn't do that if I was working with tallow.  I'm sure everyone reheats differently, but I've never had an issue doing it this way, and honestly, the brisket texture and taste is the same as it would be if I was pulling it wrapped and letting it rest for a few hours before slicing.  Actually, the bark is probably usually better with the oven reheat method because it allows the steam from the wrap to dry.  

That's a bummer about your new smoker!  I don't recall which brand you have, but the major ones all seem to have pretty good warranties on their equipment so hopefully they can hook you up with some replacement gear.  Takes the advantage out of the system if you've got to babysit it constantly! 

(03-22-2021, 01:50 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Did a pork butt yesterday and wanted to try something a bit different. I ended up cooking it at 240 and let it go without wrapping it in foil at all. I got the best bark I've ever gotten but damn did it take a long time to finish. I put it on at 11 am and I pulled it at about 10 pm when it hit 196 degrees. I usually let it go until at least 200 degrees but I got sick of waiting. It stalled at 175 for like 2.5 hours. I loved the bark on it but not sure I have the patience to do that again without wrapping. It also turned out a bit dryer than the product I get when I wrap halfway through. I wish there was some kind of happy medium.

That's a beauty!  I've been caught by surprise at how long it takes to smoke a butt without wrapping.  Definitely a longer day than it feels it should be.  I love the idea of bark, but since I usually do pork like that for sammies, and they're going to get doused in sauce anyway I've started to car less about bark.  If I really want to relax, I'll smoke it for 5-6 hours and then pull it and just toss it in the crockpot till it's done.  It braises in its own juice so it stays moist but there's no bark.  Then I can shred right there in the bowl, too, and make it even easier.  If you want the bark and moisture and not as long smoking... well, I'm interested to hear what works to meet in the middle!  Otherwise, you could try wrapping it un butcher paper.  Or you could pan it in the smoker so the top half would get bark but it would sit in its renderings and stay more moist.  

One thing I always do is put a pan under the pork while it smokes and catch all of the drippings.  After I shred, I'll mix at least some of those drippings back in.  That adds fat/moisture back, and since the drippings sat in the smoker, they're really smoky tasting, which helps add smoke flavor to the meat in the middle which certainly never got smoke.  If you had a bark, it will be there for a little bit, but won't last super long since it's now wet. 

(03-22-2021, 02:05 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: That's a beauty!  I've been caught by surprise at how long it takes to smoke a butt without wrapping.  Definitely a longer day than it feels it should be.  I love the idea of bark, but since I usually do pork like that for sammies, and they're going to get doused in sauce anyway I've started to car less about bark.  If I really want to relax, I'll smoke it for 5-6 hours and then pull it and just toss it in the crockpot till it's done.  It braises in its own juice so it stays moist but there's no bark.  Then I can shred right there in the bowl, too, and make it even easier.  If you want the bark and moisture and not as long smoking... well, I'm interested to hear what works to meet in the middle!  Otherwise, you could try wrapping it un butcher paper.  Or you could pan it in the smoker so the top half would get bark but it would sit in its renderings and stay more moist.  

One thing I always do is put a pan under the pork while it smokes and catch all of the drippings.  After I shred, I'll mix at least some of those drippings back in.  That adds fat/moisture back, and since the drippings sat in the smoker, they're really smoky tasting, which helps add smoke flavor to the meat in the middle which certainly never got smoke.  If you had a bark, it will be there for a little bit, but won't last super long since it's now wet. 

Yeah, I usually end all my cooks in the oven after I wrap. Just no point in wasting more pellets when its basically just roasting at that point.

Good point about the butcher paper. Aaron Franklin uses butcher paper and it seems like its a good compromise between bark and tenderness. The butcher paper allows the steam to vent through but also keeps the meat tender. I'll play around with it some more. 

(03-22-2021, 01:56 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: I don't like staying up all night, either.  The method I started employing after many sleepless nights was putting the brisket (still wrapped) in the fridge while I get a good night's sleep and then unwrapping it and popping it in the oven the next day (I do that because I'm not going to eat it until dinner the next day and I have zero confidence my brisket will stay within safe temps for 18 hours inside of a cooler).  250* oven, usually takes 3-4 hours to get up to ~145.  In the past, I've added some butter on top when I've gone to do the reheat to make sure it doesn't dry out.  I wouldn't do that if I was working with tallow.  I'm sure everyone reheats differently, but I've never had an issue doing it this way, and honestly, the brisket texture and taste is the same as it would be if I was pulling it wrapped and letting it rest for a few hours before slicing.  Actually, the bark is probably usually better with the oven reheat method because it allows the steam from the wrap to dry.  

That's a bummer about your new smoker!  I don't recall which brand you have, but the major ones all seem to have pretty good warranties on their equipment so hopefully they can hook you up with some replacement gear.  Takes the advantage out of the system if you've got to babysit it constantly! 

I don't think I ever registered it, but it doesn't look like the parts are all that expensive anyway.  It's whether I want to take it apart to put in a new thermometer/thermostat.  Right now I can work around it pretty good, and it's only on occasion.

(03-22-2021, 01:50 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Did a pork butt yesterday and wanted to try something a bit different. I ended up cooking it at 240 and let it go without wrapping it in foil at all. I got the best bark I've ever gotten but damn did it take a long time to finish. I put it on at 11 am and I pulled it at about 10 pm when it hit 196 degrees. I usually let it go until at least 200 degrees but I got sick of waiting. It stalled at 175 for like 2.5 hours. I loved the bark on it but not sure I have the patience to do that again without wrapping. It also turned out a bit dryer than the product I get when I wrap halfway through. I wish there was some kind of happy medium.

I did one this weekend.  I'm pretty sure it was still frozen in the middle, (decided Friday night to make it and pulled it from the freezer) because after four hours at 225, I had internal temps between 105 and 110.  I finally just wrapped it after five hours, and just put it in the oven.  Still took around 11 hours even after going up to 300.  Turned out really well though.  Tasted even better the next day after  sitting in all the juice  I added back in plus a healthy dose of salt.

But I'm going to have to say, I'm definitely brisket first, and I think ribs second with butt in third.  Just not the wow factor there.  

(03-22-2021, 02:39 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I did one this weekend.  I'm pretty sure it was still frozen in the middle, (decided Friday night to make it and pulled it from the freezer) because after four hours at 225, I had internal temps between 105 and 110.  I finally just wrapped it after five hours, and just put it in the oven.  Still took around 11 hours even after going up to 300.  Turned out really well though.  Tasted even better the next day after  sitting in all the juice  I added back in plus a healthy dose of salt.

But I'm going to have to say, I'm definitely brisket first, and I think ribs second with butt in third.  Just not the wow factor there.  

I think the ceiling on a pork butt is lower than that of say a brisket. Pork butt is harder to screw up but im just not sure an average pork butt tastes a whole lot different than a phenomenal pork butt. You know what I mean? 

(03-22-2021, 02:49 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I think the ceiling on a pork butt is lower than that of say a brisket. Pork butt is harder to screw up but im just not sure an average pork butt tastes a whole lot different than a phenomenal pork butt. You know what I mean? 

In my limited experience i do know what you mean.  I think most of barbecue is about making  a tender and juicy piece of meat out of a not very good piece of meat.  And someday, and that could be ten or more years away, I am going to take on a stick burner.  I got started at this pretty late, but that is my ultimate goal.

(03-22-2021, 02:39 PM)michaelsean Wrote: But I'm going to have to say, I'm definitely brisket first, and I think ribs second with butt in third.  Just not the wow factor there.  

(03-22-2021, 02:49 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I think the ceiling on a pork butt is lower than that of say a brisket. Pork butt is harder to screw up but im just not sure an average pork butt tastes a whole lot different than a phenomenal pork butt. You know what I mean? 

Pork butt is great for events. Smoke one or two, shred it, and you're golden for a party. Because people will usually put it on bread with sauce, maybe some slaw, you don't need as much meat per person which is a huge advantage. I also love that it's easy to make and hard to screw up. When hosting a gathering I'm always distracted and having that's less labor intensive and timing-fickle as a brisket, or space-demanding like ribs, is just what I need.

I appreciate a good butt but I would agree it's probably number 3 for me on the list. Poultry/fish would be the only thing lower because they're more of a pain to cook.

(03-22-2021, 04:45 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: Pork butt is great for events.  Smoke one or two, shred it, and you're golden for a party.  Because people will usually put it on bread with sauce, maybe some slaw, you don't need as much meat per person which is a huge advantage.  I also love that it's easy to make and hard to screw up.  When hosting a gathering I'm always distracted and having that's less labor intensive and timing-fickle as a brisket, or space-demanding like ribs, is just what I need.  

I appreciate a good butt but I would agree it's probably number 3 for me on the list.  Poultry/fish would be the only thing lower because they're more of a pain to cook.

What list are you talking about? Favorite things to smoke? Like taste wise or easiness? Taste wise I'm going: 

1. Brisket 
2. Wings 
3. Ribs 
4. Pork Butt 

Wings are my favorite food and damn do I love them on the smoker. 

(03-23-2021, 10:05 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: What list are you talking about? Favorite things to smoke? Like taste wise or easiness? Taste wise I'm going: 

1. Brisket 
2. Wings 
3. Ribs 
4. Pork Butt 

Wings are my favorite food and damn do I love them on the smoker. 

Yeah just kind of what you look forward to doing.  

I'm doing a brisket this weekend and I'm pretty excited.  My wife is probably getting sick of it.  Ribs two weeks ago, butt last week and brisket this week.

Reminds me of when I first started smoking cigars.  Buying every new thing there was. All the rules I had.  Nothing under a fifty ring (I now prefer 44-47).  I still do have two rules.  Nothing infused or flavored, and no mixed filler.  

(03-23-2021, 10:05 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: What list are you talking about? Favorite things to smoke? Like taste wise or easiness? Taste wise I'm going: 

1. Brisket 
2. Wings 
3. Ribs 
4. Pork Butt 

Wings are my favorite food and damn do I love them on the smoker. 

All of the above.  Taste-wise and ease.  As Michaelsean said, things you look forward to doing.  

Funny you mention wings, I will never pull out the smoker just for wings, but I'll toss them on sometimes if I'm doing ribs since I use the same wood(s).  They're messy and small the way I make them, and just feels like a lot of work for me to get the smoker going just for those.  Kinda like my smoked queso, jalapeno poppers or armadillo eggs, I'm not lighting a fire just for that, but if I'm smoking already, I love to toss them on and give me something to snack on later in the day while I'm still cooking the other items.  Also, not much beats a cold, smoked wing out of the fridge the next morning.  Sticky and smoky... mmmmmm.

My list would be:

1) Brisket (or beef ribs, if I can find them)
2) Ribs (pork)
3) Pork Butt 
4) Turkey 
5) Chicken (whole)
6) Fish (fish is a major annoyance to me, keeping the temp really low, having to cure depending on the fish... I basically never do fish)

(03-22-2021, 04:45 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: Pork butt is great for events.  Smoke one or two, shred it, and you're golden for a party.  Because people will usually put it on bread with sauce, maybe some slaw, you don't need as much meat per person which is a huge advantage.  I also love that it's easy to make and hard to screw up.  When hosting a gathering I'm always distracted and having that's less labor intensive and timing-fickle as a brisket, or space-demanding like ribs, is just what I need.  

I appreciate a good butt but I would agree it's probably number 3 for me on the list.  Poultry/fish would be the only thing lower because they're more of a pain to cook.

(03-23-2021, 10:37 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Yeah just kind of what you look forward to doing.  

I'm doing a brisket this weekend and I'm pretty excited.  My wife is probably getting sick of it.  Ribs two weeks ago, butt last week and brisket this week.

Reminds me of when I first started smoking cigars.  Buying every new thing there was. All the rules I had.  Nothing under a fifty ring (I now prefer 44-47).  I still do have two rules.  Nothing infused or flavored, and no mixed filler.  

I don't usually like or smoke flavored or infused cigars either. That said, don't sell yourself short and miss out on the Drew Estate Java Maduro. It is infused with coffee and dark chocolate, and is my absolute favorite morning with Bailey's and coffee cigar. Plus, it's really the only cigar the wife likes the smell of. She tolerates any of them, but likes this one.

(03-24-2021, 11:31 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I don't usually like or smoke flavored or infused cigars either. That said, don't sell yourself short and miss out on the Drew Estate Java Maduro. It is infused with coffee and dark chocolate, and is my absolute favorite morning with coffee cigar. Plus, it's really the only cigar the wife likes the smell of. She tolerates any of them, but likes this one.

Just not something I’m interested in, but the Liga Privadas are a hell of a cigar. I don’t like to spend that much but on occasion I will for a Liga Privada.

I don’t smoke as much as I used to. I use to go insane on cigarbid and was smoking two or three an evening. I don’t smoke inside anymore since my wife went from cigs to vape, so I don’t smoke nearly as much now. Since I spend so much less on cigars, I might dip my hand back into the Cuban market and get some Monte 2s or maybe some Lusitanias.

Just an FYI for new guys like me who like to watch videos. Ricer from Dead Broke BBQ does a good job and he’s pretty funny.

Happened to be in Lexington Ky. yesterday & tried out a place called The Blue Door Smokehouse.

Highly recommending it.

Best brisket sandwich I've ever eaten.