(03-21-2021, 11:25 PM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: I knew people would say Wes Welker and wasn't he a SB MVP as well? I don't want to take anything away from him but I do feel like he was a product of the offense that was being ran and now the unarguably GOAT QB throwing the ball to him (on top of obviously being a good receiver). He didn't do a ton after Tom. Had a decent year with Peyton Manning right after Brady.

Side note he's the 49ers WR coach now.

Concussions caught up to him in Denver, unfortunately.  He did set his career high for TD's there with 10.  

Protect Burrow

Burrow is like Peyton Manning, he will make any WR good.

(03-22-2021, 02:22 PM)Nati#1 Wrote: Protect Burrow

Burrow is like Peyton Manning, he will make any WR good.

That didn’t prove that useful to Tate, Erickson, Thomas or even Sample. Even AJ Green didn’t get much of a bump from him either.

There are more and more capable WR’s than ever. But the Bengals realistically have just two.

The problem here is it is not that straightforward.

Sewell has not played in over a year and even when people were raving over him they noted he needs a LOT of work on technique and is kind of raw.

Chase on the other hand is plug and play.

So....if they are mentally prepared to trade back up if needed to get someone like a Tucker then Chase is fine.

Wonder how much it would cost for both?

In order to fix this team, you must first fix the blocking. If routes don't have time to develop, does it really matter who's running them?

(03-22-2021, 03:27 PM)Wyche Wrote: In order to fix this team, you must first fix the blocking. If routes don't have time to develop, does it really matter who's running them?

The longer the OL is able to block, the more time the receivers have to get open.  The quicker the receivers can get open, the less time the OL has to be able to block.  

Burrow was on pace to be blitzed 221 times before his injury.  That would have been second most in the league.  When the opposing DC is confident that he can single up your receivers because they can't win downfield, it invites him to pull guys out of coverage and send them after your QB.  

Offenses aren't a one way street.  Everyone can help or hinder the effectiveness of everyone else.

(03-22-2021, 04:06 PM)Whatever Wrote: The longer the OL is able to block, the more time the receivers have to get open.  The quicker the receivers can get open, the less time the OL has to be able to block.  

Burrow was on pace to be blitzed 221 times before his injury.  That would have been second most in the league.  When the opposing DC is confident that he can single up your receivers because they can't win downfield, it invites him to pull guys out of coverage and send them after your QB.  

Offenses aren't a one way street.  Everyone can help or hinder the effectiveness of everyone else.

It doesn't matter how quickly the receivers get open, unless you are going to do nothing but short routes, they have to have time to run the deep routes. They can have 4 feet of separation, if the QB is on the turf it doesn't matter.

You need both blocking AND receivers that can get separation. It’s a circle.

Also, if Sewell had played this last year and was not coming in with flags on technique and being raw I would be firmer. And if we are better off with someone like Vera-Tucker then we should act accordingly. 

(03-22-2021, 04:09 PM)Sled21 Wrote: It doesn't matter how quickly the receivers get open, unless you are going to do nothing but short routes, they have to have time to run the deep routes. They can have 4 feet of separation, if the QB is on the turf it doesn't matter.

It's even more important that guys get open on longer developing routes to ease the stress placed on the OL.  You can dink and dunk and keep your QB's jersey clean, but you can't win like that.

When you go back and watch the play Burrow was injured on, WFT brought 6 guys after Burrow and singled Boyd on a fly route.  And Fuller erased Boyd with ease despite the fact that they brought Boyd out of a bunch formation to get him a free release.  Burrow even recognized it and tried to force a back shoulder throw in there, but Fuller was in such good position, he made the play with ease.  You can't run long developing routes with guys who run 4.58-4.67 like we have.  .81 seconds separates the fastest release in the NFL from the slowest.  Asking your OL to block for an extra .1 of a second on a route that takes a long time to develop because you trot out nothing but slow WR's is a huge deal.

(03-22-2021, 04:09 PM)Sled21 Wrote: It doesn't matter how quickly the receivers get open, unless you are going to do nothing but short routes, they have to have time to run the deep routes. They can have 4 feet of separation, if the QB is on the turf it doesn't matter.

Yup

You hope the OL can't pass block... https://t.co/824B7JrfkZ

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) March 22, 2021

(03-22-2021, 04:06 PM)Whatever Wrote: The longer the OL is able to block, the more time the receivers have to get open.  The quicker the receivers can get open, the less time the OL has to be able to block.  

Burrow was on pace to be blitzed 221 times before his injury.  That would have been second most in the league.  When the opposing DC is confident that he can single up your receivers because they can't win downfield, it invites him to pull guys out of coverage and send them after your QB.  

Offenses aren't a one way street.  Everyone can help or hinder the effectiveness of everyone else.

Yes, I get that....but even with the fastest man in the NFL, Dalton was running for his life more times than not. It looked even worse last season with no John Ross. Anquan Bouldin made a living being slow. It just seems this offense needs another half to full second at times and it hasn't been there. Then there's the awful run blocking.

(03-22-2021, 11:33 AM)CoachGeorge Wrote: The Bengals absolutely need to improve from last year.  They were 30th in red zone efficiency.  Higgins and Boyd combined for all of 10 TD’s on the year.  Tate and Thomas are bench players at best. The two TE’s had one TD each. Clearly, the WR and TE rooms lack both talent and depth.  What happens when a starter goes down.  It gets ugly quick.

We’ll see we’re they end up post-FA but a significant player is heavily needed.  I can’t get on board with the thought that a receiver/TE at #5 is a “luxury”. They get Golladay and this isn’t a conversation.  We didn’t.

Sewell’s pro-day looms large.  He puts on a show, he is likely not going to be there at #5 anyway.  Trading down is an armchair GM favorite tool.  Unfortunately, the FO isn’t very good at this.

The fact the Bengals media says we’re taking Sewell more than likely means they are heavily exploring other options.  No one believes what team media says this time of year anyway (or shouldn’t).

Ok Coach, you do realize that it's much easier to rush the passer and defend versus the pass, when the defense doesn't respect your rushing attack, right?

If you load up on pass catching weapons, and put your newly healed franchise QB back out there with only a slightly improved line, then what do you have?  You have a beat up QB, and an offense that still can't convert in the red zone, because they can convert a 3rd and 2 on the ground to save their lives.  That's what you have..

For the record, I'm not saying that the Bengals don't need to add receiving talent, because they do. However, they don't need superstar level talent to accomplish this. Simple role players that are good at their respective jobs will do. The good talent is needed on OL.

Deep Offensive Line Class. You don't NEED to take one at #5. In fact after the draft I expect some more Offensive Line Cuts.

(03-22-2021, 08:47 PM)Synric Wrote: Deep Offensive Line Class. You don't NEED to take one at #5. In fact after the draft I expect some more Offensive Line Cuts.

Deep receiver class as well..... don't need to take one at #5 either.

I'm not as sold on Sewell specifically as many are. I think he has a high ceiling, but that's a phrase that scares me. If the team (and fans) can afford him the time to ride the pine and develop that ceiling he's more highly coveted in my opinion.

But I still voted for Sewell over Chase because at the end of the day this team has lacked depth on the OL for way too long. Give Burrow (or any QB to be honest) time behind a line and they can make magic happen even without an armory of receivers. It's not just a matter of having a starting line, it's who is in back of those guys that makes the difference as the season wears on. I've seen so much blaming of last year's poor showing on lack of depth that it's not surprising Sewell is in the lead on this poll right now. And how it should be since the team hasn't done a whole lot in FA to help shore up the OL.

If they're both there at this point I think I'm going Chase. He's an amazingly dominant WR with few, if any, deficiencies. And as a bonus he already has an incredible amount of chemistry with our QB. While Sewell is an amazing talent, this is one of the deepest drafts for offensive line I can remember. Aside from the top four tackles that will almost assuredly go in the first round, there are a lot of guys that we can draft in the second round that could immediately play guard at a high level and very well could kick out to RT as soon as next year. That's not to mention good developmental prospects that will be available in later rounds like James Hudson. And I think there will still be starting caliber interior lineman available in the third and fourth rounds.

(03-22-2021, 02:22 PM)Nati#1 Wrote: Protect Burrow

Burrow is like Peyton Manning, he will make any WR good.

Where’s the evidence of this? Because he had an absolutely stacked offense at LSU.

Anyway, Peyton Manning had guys like Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne. He was hardly playing with a bunch of nobodies.

(03-22-2021, 08:47 PM)Synric Wrote: Deep Offensive Line Class. You don't NEED to take one at #5. In fact after the draft I expect some more Offensive Line Cuts.

Sewell, Slater and Darrisaw are in a class of their own. The drop-off from them to the next tier is step.

Waddle, Chase, Smith are elite but the drop from them to Rondale Moore, Kadarius Toney, and Rashod Bateman isn't as steep of a drop as the O-line guys.

Not too mention Chase sat out a year (since that is a concern for everyone with Sewell) and Waddle is coming off an injury. 

As for Pitts, he is a big bodied WR, the reports are his blocking still needs work, and in the Bengals offense, the TE has to be able to block.

"Pitts gives a lot of effort when blocking, and he made strides from 2019 to 2020, but he’s not ideal as a blocker."


If we really wanted to go BPA and the part of the class that isn't as deep, we'd be looking at CB.

(03-22-2021, 08:57 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Deep receiver class as well..... don't need to take one at #5 either.

Exactly.

(03-22-2021, 08:46 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Ok Coach, you do realize that it's much easier to rush the passer and defend versus the pass, when the defense doesn't respect your rushing attack, right?

If you load up on pass catching weapons, and put your newly healed franchise QB back out there with only a slightly improved line, then what do you have?  You have a beat up QB, and an offense that still can't convert in the red zone, because they can convert a 3rd and 2 on the ground to save their lives.  That's what you have..

For the record, I'm not saying that the Bengals don't need to add receiving talent, because they do. However, they don't need superstar level talent to accomplish this. Simple role players that are good at their respective jobs will do. The good talent is needed on OL.

So, are you basically saying that if we don’t take an o-line Day 1 we are pretty much done with 2021. No hope that an improved coach, a wide zone scheme, FA signings, rookies from Day 2 on and continued development of the young Bengals already on the team means squat. The Bengals are done! Naturally, agree to disagree.