(03-25-2021, 05:03 PM)Chezaugie Wrote: I'd rather have teams calling about Mixon.

I completely agree with you Chez.  I think you can find a better value in the draft than Mixon. 

(03-25-2021, 03:33 PM)Schmitbuck Wrote: Chase a ring here!

Players take pay cuts all the time to stay with their current teams later in their careers. I personally would like the keep him a Bengal just not at his current cap #. 

(03-25-2021, 04:53 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The best interests of the team should always come before the individual.

I'd lose all respect for any coach that kept a player simply because that player had his back to the press.

6-25-1


I get to reply to 2 posts with one answer! Always nice.

(03-25-2021, 04:33 PM)TJ528 Wrote: And what have the Bengals gotten for $15.9M from it's running game?  24th and 27th in the NFL respectively.   

Again, you can go find a FA running back or heck even a UDFA after the draft at RB and they'll give you the exact same production that Mixon and Gio have given you the past 2 years.  

It's not hard to rank 5th from the bottom in the NFL in the running game.  

Honestly, whenever Mixon's contract is cap friendly I'd cut him as well.  Again, you can draft someone just as good as him at a lesser cost to the cap.   I like Mixon but not for what he's counting against our cap. 

How much of that is on the lousy offensive line that lets the runners get hit in the backfield?

(03-25-2021, 04:33 PM)TJ528 Wrote: Again, you can go find a FA running back or heck even a UDFA after the draft at RB and they'll give you the exact same production that Mixon and Gio have given you the past 2 years.  

Actually, no, you probably can't.  Or at least it would be very difficult.  I knwo there have been good RBs found late in the draft and even as UDFA, but just because Tom Brady was a 6th round pick you can't just say "You can draft a QB in the 6th round who will be better than any other in the league."

(03-25-2021, 04:33 PM)TJ528 Wrote: Again, you can draft someone just as good as him at a lesser cost to the cap.   I like Mixon but not for what he's counting against our cap. 

Again, it would be very difficult.

Here's a crazy plan.

Step 1 = Trade Gio for a later round pick (Clear 4.1 mil in cap space)

Step 2 = Trade a later round pick for Zach Ertz (Add 8.25 mil in cap hit)

Step 3 = Cut CJ Uzomah (Clear 5.2 mil in space)

Net result is Zach Ertz, who is a clear upgrade as TE1, and 950k more in cap space. All while losing little to no draft capital.

(03-25-2021, 02:29 PM)Joelist Wrote: Given what Gio brings to the game I really hope they make sure the OL is fixed before dealing him.

Agree.

(03-25-2021, 05:39 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually, no, you probably can't.  Or at least it would be very difficult.  I knwo there have been good RBs found late in the draft and even as UDFA, but just because Tom Brady was a 6th round pick you can't just say "You can draft a QB in the 6th round who will be better than any other in the league."



Again, it would be very difficult.

The Hate for Mixon is hilarious. 

They way overpaid Mixon.  I would have thought we would have gotten a discount paying a year early but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Fwiw, here is a breakdown of Joe Mixon vs. Chris Carson, which I think helps set the current RB market:

Seasons Played
Mixon - 4
Carson - 4

Games Played
Mixon - 50
Carson -45

Career Rushing Yards
Mixon - 3,359
Carson - 3,270

Career YPC
Mixon - 4.1
Carson - 4.6

Career Rushing Yards Per Game
Mixon - 67.1
Carson - 72.6

Career Rushing TD's
Mixon - 20
Carson - 21

Career Receiving Yards
Mixon - 1,008
Carson - 775

Career Receiving TD's
Mixon - 5
Carson - 7

Career Total TD's
Mixon - 25
Carson - 28

Contract
Mixon - 4 year entension for 48 million (12 mil per), with 10 million dollar signing bonus
Carson - 2 year deal (open market) for for 10.4 million (5.2 mil per), with a 4.5 million dollar signing bonus

(03-25-2021, 05:51 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Here's a crazy plan.

Step 1 = Trade Gio for a later round pick (Clear 4.1 mil in cap space)

Step 2 = Trade a later round pick for Zach Ertz (Add 8.25 mil in cap hit)

Step 3 = Cut CJ Uzomah (Clear 5.2 mil in space)

Net result is Zach Ertz, who is a clear upgrade as TE1, and 950k more in cap space.  All while losing little to no draft capital.

Gee, I wonder why Zach Ertz would be available for a late round draft pick?

NFL TEs have had at least 25 receptions 182 times over the last 5 years.  Among those 182 Ertz's 2020 yards/target (4.65) ranks 182nd and his catch% (50.0) ranks 180th.

I love Gio and think he brings a lot of things to this team but I think there's one major issue in all of this.

Mixon, for all intents and purposes, is being paid to be a three down back. He has to improve in pass blocking and catching the ball to justify the contract extension.

Our line, unfortunately, is so porous that the learning curve is steep and costly with one bad move, so you would want Bernard out there in the pass blocking role.

It's a tough spot currently, and I don't know that there's a right answer. Bernard will leave in a year for nothing, and I'm guessing that he'll head to free agency. If someone would give us a fifth rounder or higher, I'd probably take it and let Perine move into Bernard's role or give Mixon the reps and hope he gets better as a part of the passing game. Otherwise, I'm fine with letting Bernard be that third down back and hopefully easing Mixon into the fulltime role.

(03-25-2021, 02:29 PM)Joelist Wrote: Given what Gio brings to the game I really hope they make sure the OL is fixed before dealing him.

I agree.

(03-25-2021, 06:19 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Contract
Mixon - 4 year entension for 48 million (12 mil per), with 10 million dollar signing bonus
Carson - 2 year deal (open market) for for 10.4 million (5.2 mil per), with a 4.5 million dollar signing bonus

Mixon got his deal after a season where he was one of only three RBs in the league with back-to-back 1100 yard seasons.

Carson got his deal after a season where he was injured and only gained 681 yards.

Apples to oranges.

Gio Bernard isn't just a great blocker, he's also 9th on the Bengals all time receiving list. That's right, 9. Not just RBs, but all players. Personally, I'd rather see the team do a restructure for an extra year or two, and allow him to finish his career as a Bengal.

However, if getting rid of a player of his quality and character somehow makes the team "better"? Then I hope they at least get a 5th for him, and use the saved money wisely.

(03-25-2021, 06:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Gee, I wonder why Zach Ertz would be available for a late round draft pick?

Because Dallas Goedert has developed into a helluva player and is the younger (26 vs. 30) and cheaper option (1.7 mil vs, 12.4 mil).

Because Philly is in cap hell (32nd in the league in space) with +7 mil over the cap.

Because everyone knows they have to trade him.

Because the market on veterans over the age of 30 is never high.

I really don't know why you're making point out such obvious things.  Do you not believe that Zach Ertz would be an upgrade over CJ Uzomah? 

(03-25-2021, 06:19 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: They way overpaid Mixon.  I would have thought we would have gotten a discount paying a year early but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Fwiw, here is a breakdown of Joe Mixon vs. Chris Carson, which I think helps set the current RB market:

Seasons Played
Mixon - 4
Carson - 4

Games Played
Mixon - 50
Carson -45

Career Rushing Yards
Mixon - 3,359
Carson - 3,270

Career YPC
Mixon - 4.1
Carson - 4.6

Career Rushing Yards Per Game
Mixon - 67.1
Carson - 72.6

Career Rushing TD's
Mixon - 20
Carson - 21

Career Receiving Yards
Mixon - 1,008
Carson - 775

Career Receiving TD's
Mixon - 5
Carson - 7

Career Total TD's
Mixon - 25
Carson - 28

Contract
Mixon - 4 year entension for 48 million (12 mil per), with 10 million dollar signing bonus
Carson - 2 year deal (open market) for for 10.4 million (5.2 mil per), with a 4.5 million dollar signing bonus

Unless the situations are identical its hard to compare. 

What would those stats look like if they swapped teams during those 4 years??

(03-25-2021, 05:51 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Here's a crazy plan.

Step 1 = Trade Gio for a later round pick (Clear 4.1 mil in cap space)

Step 2 = Trade a later round pick for Zach Ertz (Add 8.25 mil in cap hit)

Step 3 = Cut CJ Uzomah (Clear 5.2 mil in space)

Net result is Zach Ertz, who is a clear upgrade as TE1, and 950k more in cap space.  All while losing little to no draft capital.

I flat out love it.

I have been calling for Ertz trade for a long time. Then if Sewell is gone draft Pitts

Ertz
Pitts Sample

Then add a 4th for PS  at minimum salary

(03-25-2021, 06:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Mixon got his deal after a season where he was one of only three RBs in the league with back-to-back 1100 yard seasons.

That's a very specific stat to fit a very specific agenda.

There's a whole lot more to market value than how many back-to-back 1,100 yard seasons a player has or is coming off of.  For example, someone might dig a little deeper and see that one of those seasons at 4.1 YPC, which is absolutey terrible.  Someone might also look at touchdowns, production in the pass game, team performance, etc.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.  I'm of the position we paid Mixon too much money and we'd be better off having not have done that deal.  I said so as much at the time.  Clearly you're of the belief that he is indeed worth a 4 year 48 million dollar extension.  To each their own.

(03-25-2021, 06:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Gee, I wonder why Zach Ertz would be available for a late round draft pick?

NFL TEs have had at least 25 receptions 182 times over the last 5 years.  Among those 182 Ertz's 2020 yards/target (4.65) ranks 182nd and his catch% (50.0) ranks 180th.

Same reason we got very little for Dunlap, to lose his salary is reason Eagle trade him for less than normal value

(03-25-2021, 06:29 PM)Fulcher_33 Wrote: Unless the situations are identical its hard to compare. 

What would those stats look like if they swapped teams during those 4 years??

Hard to say.

I think it's fair to say, regardless of if the comparison is perfectly equal, that Carson's new deal per worth just over 5 mil per and Mixon's extension being worth 12 mil per, looks like we spent entirely way too much money for a similar level of back.

Jesus

It's like some of you don't know that you need a good O-line to put up good numbers.

Mixon has never run in the NFL behind a good O-line. He was paid so they wouldn't lose him to another team in FA. If they didn't pay him, someone else would have a year later.

I've said before, fix the o-line and Mixon will go off. Before Burrow was injured, Burrow won one game and Mixon won the other but Burrow gets credit for the two wins. If the Bengals didn't suck, Mixon would have been back before the end of the season. I'm of the belief they kept him out to protect their investment.