(03-28-2021, 02:15 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I’m all for the idea of drafting Chase, but do have a question. Down the road, who do you keep? You can’t afford to pay all 3 of Boyd, Higgins and Chase... do we let Boyd got at some point? I think that is the answer, but it’s tough to say cuz I love the guy.

That is a tough one, but yeah, it would have to be Boyd. Damn, love the dude though.

(03-28-2021, 02:18 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That is a tough one, but yeah, it would have to be Boyd. Damn, love the dude though.

Fwiw, Boyd is due to turn 27 in November of this year.

So by the time a player like Chase's rookie deal expires (after year 5 unless we don't pick up hsi 5th year option), Boyd would be 32 years old.  That's getting pretty up there in age for a WR.

(03-28-2021, 02:15 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I’m all for the idea of drafting Chase, but do have a question. Down the road, who do you keep? You can’t afford to pay all 3 of Boyd, Higgins and Chase... do we let Boyd got at some point? I think that is the answer, but it’s tough to say cuz I love the guy.

(03-28-2021, 02:40 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Fwiw, Boyd is due to turn 27 in November of this year.

So by the time a player like Chase's rookie deal expires (after year 5 unless we don't pick up hsi 5th year option), Boyd would be 32 years old.  That's getting pretty up there in age for a WR.

Drafting Ja'Marr Chase and having Tee Higgins would make Tyler Boyd an even better trade candidate in 2022. Young solid slot receivers with 2 years left on a team friendly deal.

I mean I don’t think anyone’s going to be disappointed with Chase as the pick. I wanted a non receiver in the second last year, but I was certainly happy with Tee Higgins as I really liked him even if it wasn’t the position I was hoping for

(03-28-2021, 02:40 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Fwiw, Boyd is due to turn 27 in November of this year.

So by the time a player like Chase's rookie deal expires (after year 5 unless we don't pick up hsi 5th year option), Boyd would be 32 years old.  That's getting pretty up there in age for a WR.

You make a good point. I sometimes forget these rookie contracts can go for 5 years. We’d definitely be set for years at WR with Chase as the pick... just need the QB to survive.

(03-28-2021, 02:47 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: I'd argue that KC's Super Bowl line was still better than what Cincy has been trotting out the last few years regardless of the opponent.

How can you make that evaluation based on one game?

(03-28-2021, 05:24 PM)Whatever Wrote: How can you make that evaluation based on one game?

Because that looked like Dalton running for his life his last few years here when they weren't facing a Super Bowl team and they didn't address the O-line last year until the 6th round. The main difference is that Cincinnati didn't have a lot of long developing routes in their playbook because they usually knew that their line sucked from pre-season on.

I'm not one the guys that craps on Andy Reid in the post-season but I was kind of shocked that they had two weeks to adjust their playbook with two missing tackles and didn't adjust to shorter routes or quick release.

(03-28-2021, 02:15 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I’m all for the idea of drafting Chase, but do have a question. Down the road, who do you keep? You can’t afford to pay all 3 of Boyd, Higgins and Chase... do we let Boyd got at some point? I think that is the answer, but it’s tough to say cuz I love the guy.

(03-28-2021, 02:40 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Fwiw, Boyd is due to turn 27 in November of this year.

So by the time a player like Chase's rookie deal expires (after year 5 unless we don't pick up hsi 5th year option), Boyd would be 32 years old.  That's getting pretty up there in age for a WR.

This is what I was going to say, Wes. Boyd will be heading into his age 30 season when his contract is up. Extending all 3 isn't really an issue at that point. I like Boyd but I don't think he's going to be a player who ages gracefully. Guys who average 10-11 yards per catch I don't think generally play well into their mid-30s because you can't afford to lose much off of 10-11. Welker hit a wall at age 32.

 Maybe if they draft Chase, they sign Boyd to a 2 year extension to cover his age 30 and 31 seasons? Either way, I don't think it's a real issue because Boyd will be basically done by the time the rookie contract is up for Chase.


- - - - -
(Also worth noting we're talking about 4-5 years from now. Worry about winning now. Cap space talk about 4-5 years from now is a bit silly.)

(03-28-2021, 06:28 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Because that looked like Dalton running for his life his last few years here when they weren't facing a Super Bowl team and they didn't address the O-line last year until the 6th round. The main difference is that Cincinnati didn't have a lot of long developing routes in their playbook because they usually knew that their line sucked from pre-season on.

I'm not one the guys that craps on Andy Reid in the post-season but I was kind of shocked that they had two weeks to adjust their playbook with two missing tackles and didn't adjust to shorter routes or quick release.

Mahomes was pressured on 29 of 56 dropbacks in the SB, which was 51.8%.

Burrow was the 13th most pressured QB in the league last year at 24.1%.

Dalton was pressured on 16.9% of his dropbacks in '19.

I mean, there's being somewhat biased with your eye test to support your argument, then there's just making stuff up to support your argument.

(03-27-2021, 05:39 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: So, what happens in this scenario: The Falcons stay put and take Pitts, then Carolina or Denver comes calling for the 5th pick to grab a QB? Do you make the trade, or just stay at 5 and take your guy.

If the trade offers are decent (ie- include a 2nd rounder), I trade with Carolina, less likely with Denver. There is a still a chance Sewell or Chase is there at 8, and if not, I'd be more comfortable taking Slater there. A lot of earlier mocks had Miami picking one of the Bama receivers at 3, but I'm not sure if that's off of any inside info. 

5- Carolina - QB
6- Miami
7- Detroit
8- Bengals

(03-28-2021, 07:23 PM)Whatever Wrote: Mahomes was pressured on 29 of 56 dropbacks in the SB, which was 51.8%.

Burrow was the 13th most pressured QB in the league last year at 24.1%.

Dalton was pressured on 16.9% of his dropbacks in '19.

I mean, there's being somewhat biased with your eye test to support your argument, then there's just making stuff up to support your argument.

Did you factor in release time by the QB? Dalton led the league in release time several times and not because he reads the defense faster than any QB in the league.

I mentioned in my last post how the routes were designed for quick release. Also, the Bengals didn't face a Super Bowl team in 16 of their games in '19. Leaving stuff out to support YOUR argument?

(03-28-2021, 08:00 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Did you factor in release time by the QB? Dalton led the league in release time several times and not because he reads the defense faster than any QB in the league.

I mentioned in my last post how the routes were designed for quick release. Also, the Bengals didn't face a Super Bowl team in 16 of their games in '19. Leaving stuff out to support YOUR argument?

Whatever makes his points without context so dont take him seriously

(03-28-2021, 08:17 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Whatever makes his points without context so dont take him seriously

I don't have a problem with any of that . . . it's the accusing me of making stuff up to support my argument while dancing around or just ignoring most of what was actually said. Ignoring key points of others posts seems to be pretty common around here.

(03-28-2021, 08:35 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: I don't have a problem with any of that . . . it's the accusing me of making stuff up to support my argument while dancing around or just ignoring most of what was actually said. Ignoring key points of others posts seems to be pretty common around here.

he does that in every thread. that's his gimmick

(03-28-2021, 08:00 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Did you factor in release time by the QB? Dalton led the league in release time several times and not because he reads the defense faster than any QB in the league.

I mentioned in my last post how the routes were designed for quick release. Also, the Bengals didn't face a Super Bowl team in 16 of their games in '19. Leaving stuff out to support YOUR argument?

Dalton was tied for 20th out of 39 qualifying passers in Intended Air Yards last year, so average.  You can't claim that the offense was set up for "quick release" when the distance they tried to throw the ball was league average.  That's not leaving stuff out that doesn't support my argument.  That's ignoring another completely made up point you made that isn't rooted in fact.

You're the one that asserted that through evaluation that you could tell that the KC SB OL was better than the Bengals' OL the past few years based on one game.  Now you're complaining about having to try and prove your point based on a limited sample size.  If you can't come to that conclusion logically based on that sample size, you shouldn't have claimed that you could.  The fact that you doubled down on an unwinnable argument isn't my problem.

Dalton's release time does affect it some, but it's much closer to the 7.2% that separates he and Burrow than the 35.1% that separates him from  Mahomes behind the KC SB OL. 

Last year Dalton was with the Cowboys.

In your zeal to attempt to prove me wrong, you conveniently leave out the key point in why I mentioned the o-line as being better than what Cincy has had . . . they averaged over 6 yards a carry in the Super Bowl.

How did Cincy do in any of the last few years in average yards per carry? Or are you solely focused on the passing game, thus your want of Chase or Pitts over Sewell? I'm the one that wanted to trade down twice in the first round last year to fix the o-line for Mixon and extend Dalton because I knew that a 1st overall QB was going to get pummeled behind this line. Burrow didn't win two games last year . . . he won one and Mixon won one. Running against Jacksonville is the complete opposite of running against a Super Bowl team. thus, why I want to still fix the o-line. Reiff isn't enough.

(03-28-2021, 08:35 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: I don't have a problem with any of that . . . it's the accusing me of making stuff up to support my argument while dancing around or just ignoring most of what was actually said. Ignoring key points of others posts seems to be pretty common around here.

If I provide facts that disprove erroneous arguments you make that you obviously just made up in your head, you have a problem.

If I ignore erroneous arguments you make that can be easily disproved with facts, you accuse me of "dancing around" or "ignoring most of what was actually said."

Seems like the solution would be for you to quit posting made up arguments that can be easily disproved with data. 

(03-28-2021, 09:33 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Last year Dalton was with the Cowboys.

In your zeal to attempt to prove me wrong, you conveniently leave out the key point in why I mentioned the o-line as being better than what Cincy has had . . . they averaged over 6 yards a carry in the Super Bowl.

How did Cincy do in any of the last few years in average yards per carry? Or are you solely focused on the passing game, thus your want of Chase or Pitts over Sewell? I'm the one that wanted to trade down twice in the first round last year to fix the o-line for Mixon and extend Dalton because I knew that a 1st overall QB was going to get pummeled behind this line. Burrow didn't win two games last year . . . he won one and Mixon won one. Running against Jacksonville is the complete opposite of running against a Super Bowl team. thus, why I want to still fix the o-line. Reiff isn't enough.

ignore him, otherwise you're gonna be beating a dead horse all night

(03-28-2021, 08:00 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Did you factor in release time by the QB? Dalton led the league in release time several times and not because he reads the defense faster than any QB in the league.

I mentioned in my last post how the routes were designed for quick release. Also, the Bengals didn't face a Super Bowl team in 16 of their games in '19. Leaving stuff out to support YOUR argument?

Dalton makes his team worse just by showing up

(03-28-2021, 09:33 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Last year Dalton was with the Cowboys.

In your zeal to attempt to prove me wrong, you conveniently leave out the key point in why I mentioned the o-line as being better than what Cincy has had . . . they averaged over 6 yards a carry in the Super Bowl.

How did Cincy do in any of the last few years in average yards per carry? Or are you solely focused on the passing game, thus your want of Chase or Pitts over Sewell? I'm the one that wanted to trade down twice in the first round last year to fix the o-line for Mixon and extend Dalton because I knew that a 1st overall QB was going to get pummeled behind this line. Burrow didn't win two games last year . . . he won one and Mixon won one. Running against Jacksonville is the complete opposite of running against a Super Bowl team. thus, why I want to still fix the o-line. Reiff isn't enough.

(03-28-2021, 09:39 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: ignore him, otherwise you're gonna be beating a dead horse all night

What Frank said...

It's either trolling at expert level or a non-fan hiding as a fan or some Brown relative.



I am curious of one thing. Why is everyone all in on Chase over the other two top WR's in this class?

Just a really curious question. 

People are against Sewell because he played against sub-par competition. Same competition Justin Herbert played against and he looked NFL ready.

People are against Sewell cause he opted out. So did Chase.

Chase had 300 yards his first season.

Then Joe Brady and Joe Burrow show up and he lights things up.

Then they both leave and he opts out. Think he might realize that his numbers were going to fall off dramatically without those two?

Look at who would coach him here. Zac Taylor. Does anyone think we'd see Joe Brady level offensive numbers here? I just think any offensive weapon will be under used or used incorrectly in this offense.