Fact: 2020 was an absolute train wreck for the o-line. Injuries, poor performance, a dearth of confidence and week-to-week an absence of continuity or chemistry nor any semblance that was even the goal. Survival was the apparent goal.

But the Bengals have quietly rebuilt their offensive line.

Consider, that 4 players who never played for Pollack and didn’t even have a snap in 2019 make up 60% of their likely starters for 2021:
XSF - 5 starts (58 career)
Spain - 8 starts (74 career)
Jonah - 10 starts (10 career)
Reiff - 0 starts (127 career)

The 4 lineman account for just 23 starts in 2020 for the Bengals. For practical purposes, they’re NEWCOMERS. To a man, they were hardly a part of the train wreck that led to the downfall of last season and the disastrous injury to JB.

Add veteran Hopkins 15 starts (52 career) and you have what could only be described as a veteran-laden average-average line. Only Jonah has a modicum of upside (and quite a bit). Nonetheless, after last year, I’ll take it ALL DAY LONG. A total of 321 career NFL starts!

Add to that Sewell (or maybe Slater, Vera-Tucker, Jenkins should they trade out of #5) or a Day 2 pick who likely plays RG until he moves to RT in 2022. Add a possible later round pick as an IOL and I think the Bengals actually have a plan and that they seem to be sticking to it no matter all the “chicken littles” that are the sad fanbase.

I think JB is perfectly well aware of what this team is doing and he is totally on board.

As for the future, this years abundance of quality lineman deep into the draft should nab them at least two, Adeniji, FJ, Jordan, Price (no matter how they look today) and there is reason for optimism for the future as well.

I was on the old board in the ‘90’s and gave up with daily assault of negative thread after thread. Life’s too short for that. The reason I’m back now is how confident I am in JB to turn the corner for this franchise. YMMV.

If the line can stay healthy, the guys we have plus a early round rookie getting plugged in should be okay. I’d still like one more veteran guy but slim pickings for sure at this point. If they can all stay healthy and gel I think they’ll be much better. Spain coming in and XSF actually playing were the better parts of the line performance last year.

While I agree that Pollack is a huge improvement over the horror show of a coach we had last season, I think the belief he can fix the bad players we have is a little misguided.

While in Dallas when he had the awesome line that everyone thinks of with him, he had 4 1st round OL on the team. Jonathan Cooper, Travis Frederick, Zack Martin and Tyron Smith. It wasn't like he was taking 3rd, 4th and guys off the scrap pile and making them All-Pro, he was given a lot of draft capital and talent and he got them to play like 1st rounders. Give him the talent, and he can do it here, but he's going to need the talent.

(03-28-2021, 10:22 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: While I agree that Pollack is a huge improvement over the horror show of a coach we had last season, I think the belief he can fix the bad players we have is a little misguided.

While in Dallas when he had the awesome line that everyone thinks of with him, he had 4 1st round OL on the team. Jonathan Cooper, Travis Frederick, Zack Martin and Tyron Smith. It wasn't like he was taking 3rd, 4th and guys off the scrap pile and making them All-Pro, he was given a lot of draft capital and talent and he got them to play like 1st rounders. Give him the talent, and he can do it here, but he's going to need the talent.

Agree 100 % feel like some fans are acting like Pollock is gonna be a savior. There’s only so much a coach can do with bad players. Turner has been made a scape goat for bad drafting just like Alexander before him. Alexander had some great lines because we had great / good players like Anderson, Whitworth, Levi Jones , Zeitler, Boling , Bobbie Williams ect. The run O was good under Pollock but Hart had his worst season giving up 10 sacks multiple pressures and was a penalty machine along with Redmond at guard. Having Boling helped Pollock out he even played LT for a few games and did well but had to retire the following year due to blood clots. Glenn wasn’t great under Pollock either and didn’t have a year long concussion like he did the next year.

Injuries are going to happen. It's almost a given, I'm in the camp to draft a couple young guys early, not necessarily to start them, but fix this line with better depth and better long term answers.

(03-28-2021, 08:20 PM)CoachGeorge Wrote: Fact: 2020 was an absolute train wreck for the o-line.  Injuries, poor performance, a dearth of confidence and week-to-week an absence of continuity or chemistry nor any semblance that was even the goal.  Survival was the apparent goal.

But the Bengals have quietly rebuilt their offensive line.

Consider, that 4 players who never played for Pollack and didn’t even have a snap in 2019 make up 60% of their likely starters for 2021:
XSF - 5  starts (58 career)
Spain - 8 starts (74 career)
Jonah - 10 starts (10 career)
Reiff - 0 starts (127 career)

The 4 lineman account for just 23 starts in 2020 for the Bengals.  For practical purposes, they’re NEWCOMERS. To a man, they were hardly a part of the train wreck that led to the downfall of last season and the disastrous injury to JB.

Add veteran Hopkins 15 starts (52 career) and you have what could only be described as a veteran-laden average-average line.  Only Jonah has a modicum of upside (and quite a bit). Nonetheless, after last year, I’ll take it ALL DAY LONG. A total of 321 career NFL starts!

Add to that Sewell (or maybe Slater, Vera-Tucker, Jenkins should they trade out of #5) or a Day 2 pick who likely plays RG until he moves to RT in 2022.  Add a possible later round pick as an IOL and I think the Bengals actually have a plan and that they seem to be sticking to it no matter all the “chicken littles” that are the sad fanbase.

I think JB is perfectly well aware of what this team is doing and he is totally on board.

As for the future, this years abundance of quality lineman deep into the draft should nab them at least two, Adeniji, FJ, Jordan, Price (no matter how they look today) and there is reason for optimism for the future as well.  

I was on the old board in the ‘90’s and gave up with daily assault of negative thread after thread.  Life’s too short for that. The reason I’m back now is how confident I am in JB to turn the corner for this franchise.  YMMV.

 At this point I don't see how you can say they have rebuilt the line. They have signed exactly one player that wasn't here last year. 

 Reiff is it. They  hopefully will draft at least 2 but this line hasn't been rebuilt yet. Quietly or otherwise.

Nice post. Reiff and Spain additions were crucial. I feel like we can win with Jonah, Spain, Hopkins, X, Reiff and be good. We also have some young guys fighting for their NFL lives which can be good for their development. And we will undoubtedly add OL in the draft. I think Pollack is in a good position to get this turned around quick. If we get a run game clicking early and better pass pro... better watch out NFL.

One new starter (Reiff) is not enough.  Especially since RT was not as big of a problem as the OGs.  I feel we absolutely have to add another new starter in the draft.

Hopefully Pollack will make a big difference.  Last year our biggest problem seemed to be picking up stunts and blitzes more than just getting physically beaten one-on-one.  If he can make a marked improvement in that area and we add another starter then I will feel a lot better about our O-line.  

But pass protection was not the only problem.  We sucked at running the ball also.

We definitely need more OL in the draft but we are looking a lot better heading into season with the lineup with Spain and XSF starting OG over Jordan and Johnson, and of course Reiff over Hart. That is 3 new starters from last seasons opening. Big difference imo. Jordan has looked like a bust so far, and Johnson is just not OG material but he's a decent RT.

I think Pollack will help a lot in the run game scheme as well. Turner got it going in his first year here, but by the time he did it was too little too late. Last year, we didnt get better until injuries forced him to play other players. His chosen starters sucked. But when we were forced to sign Redmond back and Spain came in, and Adeniji started playing, things smoothed out a little. Jordan should not have ever been a starting G on this team as we had better players behind him even in the game Joe got hurt. Thats on Turner, imo. He wasnt good at talent eval if you ask me. And failed to recognize that players like Johnson were not interchangable. Johnson was a liability at OG, and so was Jordan. By the end of the year when Jordan was benched and XSF was back, the OL did look better and we were running the ball better.

With a full offseason, Spain and XSF could be much improved, and I like having Reiff over Hart. Pollack will create a different blocking scheme and I believe that will also help. Pollack isnt magic, so he may not be able to get more out of guys like Jordan, but I trust his abilities way more than Turner to find the right guys and use them in the right ways to get things looking a lot better. After we add another couple OLmen in the draft things could really be looking up.

(03-29-2021, 08:56 AM)lone bengal Wrote: Agree 100 % feel like some fans are acting like Pollock is gonna be a savior. There’s only so much a coach can do with bad players. Turner has been made a scape goat for bad drafting just like Alexander before him. Alexander had some great lines because we had great / good players like Anderson, Whitworth, Levi Jones , Zeitler, Boling , Bobbie Williams ect. The run O was good under Pollock but Hart had his worst season giving up 10 sacks multiple pressures and was a penalty machine along with Redmond  at guard. Having Boling helped Pollock out he even played LT for a few games and did well but had to retire the following year due to blood clots. Glenn wasn’t great under Pollock either and didn’t have a year long concussion like he did the next year.

Never under estimate what a,good oline coach can do for a unit.
Turner is no scapegoat. He just flatout cannot coach up a oline to be dominant or at least
Be on the same page. 
Look at his resume. What olines under his watch have been considered well coached?
Thats what when he,was shown the door teams were lining up for his oline expertise, right?
No he is he drinking his Sam Adams Lager today waiting for a call from anyone dumb 
Enough to hire his Sgt.Carter antics

If 1st RDs picks were everything how come Paul Alexander was 1 and done in Dallas?
Talent is nothing without coaching in the NFL.

I bet you anything Brian Callahan got a bit of wisdom from his dad  who is oline coach
In Cleveland and passed it to ZT about overhauling the oline.

Can anyone name me how many 1st RD picks the highest graded oline in the league.
Its 1. 
The Browns have Jedrick Willis.thats the 1st RDer
Bitonio is a 2nd RD from 2 regimes ago. Tretter is FA from GB. Wyatt Teller the best OG in the NFL
was a afterthought in a trade. 
And Jack Conklin a FA from the Titans.
But they only got to that level cause,of the arrival of Bill Callahan. 
The Browns in 2020-added 2 new pieces plus the coach....boom. Best oline in the NFL
Then in the Steelers playoff win they had a no name start at RG for Bitonio. 
Didnt miss a beat up front.

Thats coaching folks.

Dehner just did an interesting mock with us getting Leatherwood and Radunz (I am not sure he makes it to 3rd but interesting) back to back in the 2nd and 3rd and I think something like that is pretty reasonable to consider. You get guys who may need a year to develop more fully but could potentially be quality starters this year if things pan out, especially Leatherwood at guard.

(03-29-2021, 08:56 AM)lone bengal Wrote: Agree 100 % feel like some fans are acting like Pollock is gonna be a savior. There’s only so much a coach can do with bad players. Turner has been made a scape goat for bad drafting just like Alexander before him. Alexander had some great lines because we had great / good players like Anderson, Whitworth, Levi Jones , Zeitler, Boling , Bobbie Williams ect. The run O was good under Pollock but Hart had his worst season giving up 10 sacks multiple pressures and was a penalty machine along with Redmond  at guard. Having Boling helped Pollock out he even played LT for a few games and did well but had to retire the following year due to blood clots. Glenn wasn’t great under Pollock either and didn’t have a year long concussion like he did the next year.

What if Pollack comes in and teaches a little different technique than Turner or Alexander? I do think coaching and how that coach gets his group to buy into his scheme is very important. Rieff is a good player as is XSF and Spain, give them a camp to work together.  
Alexander flopped in Dallas after he started teaching his way.....

(03-29-2021, 10:44 AM)sandwedge Wrote: What if Pollack comes in and teaches a little different technique than Turner or Alexander? I do think coaching and how that coach gets his group to buy into his scheme is very important. Rieff is a good player as is XSF and Spain, give them a camp to work together.  
Alexander flopped in Dallas after he started teaching his way.....

and pollack has been bouncing around since he left and ol that had 5 highly drafted guys...


Hes not gonna come in and whisper a few things and these guys start playing like all pro's lol

Listening to the podcast with Laph it appears Sewell had a really tough time with pro-style defenses while doing pretty good against the more Pac style spreads.. Maybe I'm a bit too biased to his opinions of these things since he was an Olineman for the team himself.. Add the fact he played zero games last year I'm not so sure he's an ideal candidate for a top 5 pick..

(03-29-2021, 10:51 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: and pollack has been bouncing around since he left and ol that had 5 highly drafted guys...


Hes not gonna come in and whisper a few things and these guys start playing like all pro's lol

And you know he won't? 

Xavier Su'a-Filo might be the most overrated Bengal on the roster. He was a 2nd round pick and was solid early in his career with Houston. Since then he was signed by the Titans in 2018 and cut before the season and then signed by Dallas as a backup to a rookie Connor Williams. He filled in for 4 games for Williams in 2019 after Williams tore his ACL, then Su’a Filo broke his leg. He got hurt with the Bengals and played 4 games and didn’t play well. Yes he’s better than Michael Jordan but that’s not saying much. Spain really isn’t that good either. Out of 57 starting guards from Week 13-17, Spain ranked 49th in pass blocking grade and 31st in run blocking grade per Pro Football Focus.

(03-29-2021, 10:55 AM)grampahol Wrote: Listening to the podcast with Laph it appears Sewell had a really tough time with pro-style defenses while doing pretty good against the more Pac style spreads.. Maybe I'm a bit too biased to his opinions of these things since he was an Olineman for the team himself.. Add the fact he played zero games last year I'm not so sure he's an ideal candidate for a top 5 pick..

I'm cynical and think Lap only spouts what the Bengals want him to say. This makes me think the Brown family is locked on Chase, Smith, or Pitts and thus is using Lap as a mouthpiece to say Sewell isn't able to hold up in NFL pro-style defenses.

(03-29-2021, 10:57 AM)sandwedge Wrote: And you know he won't? 

Yes magic doesnt exist.  

(03-29-2021, 09:30 AM)masonbengals fan Wrote:  At this point I don't see how you can say they have rebuilt the line. They have signed exactly one player that wasn't here last year. 

 Reiff is it. They  hopefully will draft at least 2 but this line hasn't been rebuilt yet. Quietly or otherwise.

(03-29-2021, 10:01 AM)fredtoast Wrote: One new starter (Reiff) is not enough.  Especially since RT was not as big of a problem as the OGs.  I feel we absolutely have to add another new starter in the draft.

Hopefully Pollack will make a big difference.  Last year our biggest problem seemed to be picking up stunts and blitzes more than just getting physically beaten one-on-one.  If he can make a marked improvement in that area and we add another starter then I will feel a lot better about our O-line.  

But pass protection was not the only problem.  We sucked at running the ball also.

Exacly! The guards were bad and our center is coming off ACL surgery. Williams has managed 10 games out of 32. XSF only managed 5 starts out of 16 possible.

This team is one Williams injury away from Fred Johnson starting at OT and another XSF injury away from Jordan being a starter once again. Kind of just like last year. I don't see the rebuild.

A rebuild would mean a couple of new starters from the draft and I just don't see that happening.

 

(03-29-2021, 11:37 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: I'm cynical and think Lap only spouts what the Bengals want him to say. This makes me think the Brown family is locked on Chase, Smith, or Pitts and thus is using Lap as a mouthpiece to say Sewell isn't able to hold up in NFL pro-style defenses.

There have been concerns about Sewell way before Laphams
Comment about his inability to face pro style fronts.
I think some are having a hard time realizing Sewell isnt
The slam dunk consensus choice which was to be believed 
Months ago. 
Lap wouldnt make that up.