I think it's getting fairly clear that Bob and crew aren't cut out for owning a winning major league team. Since he got here he and his brain trust have sucked at developing talent. They've also sucked at acquiring talent. They can't build a team that can win in the playoffs at any point, and they can't rebuild when it's time to get assets in return for top high-end talent. They are basically good at nothing. Waiting for them to be worth watching is like waiting for your bank account to fill up without putting money into it.

He and his people should be getting treated like Mike and the family, because as of now they are even worse than the first family of Cincinnati sports disdain.

So sick of listening to these rich assholes cry poor every chance they get. Sell the team and get into another line of work.

This offseason might have been their most embarrassing yet. They managed to completely destroy any interest generated by last year's late run. Time for them to stop pretending they care about anything but money.

But, but, but...They're job creators for FAR less talented players! But 20 years of high round draft picks will pay out..Kind of like the Cubs for the 90 years before it finally worked for them.. Personally is I were able to buy a team the last thing I'd worry about would be public pressure campaigns . It's like telling a filthy rich guy, "I don't like how you spend your money.." That and a bag of dirt might get you somewhere, but not far.. 

This team is absolutely painful to watch in terms of roster construction. We finally got to the end of the shitty rebuild, and now they can't even add pieces to compliment the team that went to the playoffs. Nothing in return for their closer other than salary dump. A really exciting Cy Young campaign that seemed like it went by in a second only for us to watch the dude leave for a team that truly tries to win. They half-gave up on the current roster, but not quite. This results in a weaker roster with no closer, no rotation depth, and no shortstop.

If they are broke, then they should bail assets rather than try to hold on with a lesser roster. Get something for Castillo. he's got to be worth a king's ransom at his age and price. Get rid of Gray before his injury issues get worse. Suarez, etc, rinse, repeat. They can't even tank the right way, and they definitely aren't trying to get better. if you're going to cut budget, you might as well go all in. With their luck, Castillo will have Tommy John and be worth a bucket of balls by the end of the year.

Suarez is a natural SS that was forced to learn 3rd base because Cozart was entrenched at SS. If anything, his move to SS opens up our lineup. India is a better hitter than any of the SS hopefuls so moving Moose to 3rd puts India in the lineup.

Offensively, I think the Reds crush over last season's performance. Castellanos, Moose, Suarez, Senzel and Votto all had down years. Votto really looks like he's attacking the ball again instead of looking for a walk. Castellanos, Moose and Suarez never had a year like 2020 before, look for all three to rebound. Senzel, Winker and India just need to hit to their abilities and this team will tear it up. Barhardt is there for defense. He proved it today with picking off a runner at third base when the Mariners had runners on 2nd and 3rd.

Pitching, currently, has me worried. How it looks a month from now may be different but right now, it's pretty scary.

Castellini has been a million times better than Marge and Daddy Warbucks Lindner. Those 2 got rid of scouts and stopped Reds Hall of Fame voting. I tired of the complete cheapness of Marge. Her not opening gates until last second is Cheap, Cheap Cincinnati nonsense used decades for concerts such as The Who. I took my late Mom to Tony Perez Day and we were there many hours before game time. A sell out crowd grew outside on the hot cement. No place to sit down or get shade. Many in the crowd such as my Mom were too old for that. Then outside we could hear Marty and Joe start the Tony Perez Pre Game Ceremonies. Finally They opened the gates late as if any other game to Marge. 50 thousand people now going through gates off hot cement to see TONY. We got to see end of Tony Perez Day. That was so CHEAP of Marge, refusing to pay ticket takers and such extra time on the clock. Then, when game over, Joe Nuxhall post game ceremony with TONY, but Police and Security telling fans they had to go, they could not watch post game ceremony. Marge was too CHEAP. I would have liked to kick Marge in her butt that day for making my Mom and 50,000 others wait outside on the hot cement to the last second, as if just another game. Lindner wasn't much better.

So Castellini bringing back Reds Hall Of Fame and then building a Hall of Fame and the statues. Fans able to go in park early again. He took a very generic Great American Ball Park, and turned it into a very good Ball Park adding many new features. GABP sucked before Castellini took over. He had the Great 8 Day and made it so PETE ROSE could be part of things, even added to Reds Hall of Fame and Statue.

People who don't agree with this, don't know jack. It's easy to come on here and complain about everything. You better stick to complaining about Mike Brown. You people are way off base on Castellini. Pete Rose and many ex Reds say Reds Fans should appreciate all that Castellini has done, and I agree. He is a million times better than Marge or Lindner were. GABP was the most generic looking garbage ever built, until Castellini came in and made huge improvements to where now Cincinnati has a park and a Hall of Fame they can be proud of.

(03-30-2021, 05:42 PM)kevin Wrote: Castellini has been a million times better than Marge and Daddy Warbucks Lindner.  Those 2 got rid of scouts and stopped Reds Hall of Fame voting.  I tired of the complete cheapness of Marge.  Her not opening gates until last second is Cheap, Cheap Cincinnati nonsense used decades for concerts such as The Who.  I took my late Mom to Tony Perez Day and we were there many hours before game time. A sell out crowd grew outside on the hot cement. No place to sit down or get shade. Many in the crowd such as my Mom were too old for that.  Then outside we could hear Marty and Joe start the Tony Perez Pre Game Ceremonies.  Finally They opened the gates late as if any other game to Marge.  50 thousand people now going through gates off hot cement to see TONY.  We got to see end of Tony Perez Day. That was so CHEAP of Marge, refusing to pay ticket takers and such extra time on the clock. Then, when game over, Joe Nuxhall post game ceremony with TONY, but Police and Security telling fans they had to go, they could not watch post game ceremony.  Marge was too CHEAP.  I would have liked to kick Marge in her butt that day for making my Mom and 50,000 others wait outside on the hot cement to the last second, as if just another game. Lindner wasn't much better.

So Castellini bringing back Reds Hall Of Fame and then building a Hall of Fame and the statues. Fans able to go in park early again. He took a very generic Great American Ball Park, and turned it into a very good Ball Park adding many new features. GABP sucked before Castellini took over. He had the Great 8 Day and made it so PETE ROSE could be part of things, even added to Reds Hall of Fame and Statue.

People who don't agree with this, don't know jack. It's easy to come on here and complain about everything.  You better stick to complaining about Mike Brown. You people are way off base on Castellini.  Pete Rose and many ex Reds say Reds Fans should appreciate all that Castellini has done, and I agree.  He is a million times better than Marge or Lindner were.  GABP was the most generic looking garbage ever built, until Castellini came in and made huge improvements to where now Cincinnati has a park and a Hall of Fame they can be proud of.

Yeah, they don't call him "Bobblehead Bob" for no reason.  He's great at promotion and non-on field management of the franchise.  He just happens to suck at the baseball part.  They cry poor every chance they get when it's time to add to the roster, and the minor league system is an absolute 
joke.  A team that tanked as long as this one did should be crammed with talent waiting to hit the majors, but they aren't.  

Fact is, they're facing yet another rebuild.  They're simply spinning their wheels to get more fans into the stadium with their roster of 3-outcome hitters that can't produce.  This is because the owner wants money more than wins.  He has to squeeze all he can out of what remains of the above avg 2020 roster.  If he can't play the game and get a 15 mil shortstop, then he needs to go back to being a produce salesman and let a real baseball man take over.

This team has gone from being the sports lifeblood of the city to being yet another depressing Cincinnati loser story.  Marge was cheap and evil, but Marge somehow built teams that could win here and there.  Linder was a joke.  Cast is Linder lite.  He's small time trying to be big league.  Nothing worse than a billionaire crying poor while the city watches it's once great franchise get crapped on and forgotten by another generation.

(03-30-2021, 05:59 PM)samhain Wrote: Yeah, they don't call him "Bobblehead Bob" for no reason.  He's great at promotion and non-on field management of the franchise.  He just happens to suck at the baseball part.  They cry poor every chance they get when it's time to add to the roster, and the minor league system is an absolute 
joke.  A team that tanked as long as this one did should be crammed with talent waiting to hit the majors, but they aren't.  

Fact is, they're facing yet another rebuild.  They're simply spinning their wheels to get more fans into the stadium with their roster of 3-outcome hitters that can't produce.  This is because the owner wants money more than wins.  He has to squeeze all he can out of what remains of the above avg 2020 roster.  If he can't play the game and get a 15 mil shortstop, then he needs to go back to being a produce salesman and let a real baseball man take over.

This team has gone from being the sports lifeblood of the city to being yet another depressing Cincinnati loser story.  Marge was cheap and evil, but Marge somehow built teams that could win here and there.  Linder was a joke.  Cast is Linder lite.  He's small time trying to be big league.  Nothing worse than a billionaire crying poor while the city watches it's once great franchise get crapped on and forgotten by another generation.

Yeah he's like tripled his investment with the Reds.  If you want to win consistently in towns like Cincinnati, you're probably going to have to take some losses.  If you're not ready to do that, then don't waste everyone's time.  BTW you will mitigate some of those losses with sellout stadiums when you win consistently, and all the other money that goes along with it like concessions and merchandise.

My prediction: If the Reds as a team this year keep up even half the pace they've been on this thread won't age as well as originally intended..

(04-07-2021, 11:09 PM)grampahol Wrote: My prediction: If the Reds as a team this year keep up even half the pace they've been on this thread won't age as well as originally intended..

Much to the Op's dismay, it's starting to age just fine.  It's a bad deal when your organizational plan is to bail good to decent players for shitty ones. It catches up in the long run.  This bullpen is dead meat.

Well...My prediction flopped, but they are playing at less than half as good as they were.. I got some part of it right.. Maybe this summer the riots will be over Castilini selling the team to someone who knows how to play money ball..

It is hard to judge the ownership group in a sport with no salary cap.

I know that won't be popular but they just can't compete with the Dodgers and Angels and Yankees and Red Sox who can buy their way out of mistakes. When they screw up on a contract like Bailey's which might have been before the new owners I'd have to check, it really screws them for years.

It sucks, but it is just the world of baseball

(04-28-2021, 01:19 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: It is hard to judge the ownership group in a sport with no salary cap.

I know that won't be popular but they just can't compete with the Dodgers and Angels and Yankees and Red Sox who can buy their way out of mistakes. When they screw up on a contract like Bailey's which might have been before the new owners I'd have to check, it really screws them for years.

It sucks, but it is just the world of baseball

Real easy to judge an ownership group regardless of salary cap or not when they keep hiring their buddies and family and the team keeps losing. We went from the owner's friend being GM, to another owner's son, and hired a FO guy's son to be manager. All of them terrible.

This is the 16th season under Castellini. They have had a winning record in just 4 seasons under him (3 if you don't count the 31-29 season last year). They have won 0 playoff series and they have had 3 of the most embarrassing showings in modern playoff memory. (No-hitter sweep in 2010, lost 3 straight at home in 2012, series shutout sweep in 2020.)

Their drafting is atrocious, too. Can you name one great Reds player that they have drafted and developed since 2008 when Walt first took over and Bob C finished crony-ing up? (Winker might finally break that drafting futility streak, we'll see.)

Super easy to judge that resume.

(04-28-2021, 04:16 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Real easy to judge an ownership group regardless of salary cap or not when they keep hiring their buddies and family and the team keeps losing. We went from the owner's friend being GM, to another owner's son, and hired a FO guy's son to be manager. All of them terrible.

This is the 16th season under Castellini. They have had a winning record in just 4 seasons under him (3 if you don't count the 31-29 season last year). They have won 0 playoff series and they have had 3 of the most embarrassing showings in modern playoff memory. (No-hitter sweep in 2010, lost 3 straight at home in 2012, series shutout sweep in 2020.)

Their drafting is atrocious, too. Can you name one great Reds player that they have drafted and developed since 2008 (when Walt first took over and Bob C finished crony-ing up)?

Super easy to judge that resume.

Winker?

But fair points, I just feel like they at least try more then the team that is a few blocks away and they have to live in a world where guys they do find and develop like Cueto, leave them for the big money.

Speaking of baseball drafts, is there any sport that has less return on 1st round picks then baseball?

(04-28-2021, 04:23 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Winker?

But fair points, I just feel like they at least try more then the team that is a few blocks away and they have to live in a world where guys they do find and develop like Cueto, leave them for the big money.

Speaking of baseball drafts, is there any sport that has less return on 1st round picks then baseball?

I had edited after you started your reply to acknowledge him, but even he hasn't been great in the past. It's been all promise before now. He came into the league in 2017 and before this year he had 2.6 career WAR in 303 games (vs 0.8 WAR in 17 games so far this year alone, so he could be the one to break the streak). Sadly I think the best Reds players drafted in the Jocketty era right this second were Mike Leake and Billy Hamilton. A dictionary definition average pitcher and a fast defender who can't hit himself out of a wet paper bag.

- - - 

The Reds do a far better job with fan interaction and franchise appreciation, but from an actual games and structure standpoint they're shockingly similar in so far as both teams rely on friends and family to run critical positions, they "want" to win but only want to do it their way, and they're both doing a terrible job at it.

Cueto left them because they chose Homer Bailey over him. They believed in Bailey's improvement, got enamored with the no hitters, and ignored all the warning signs and statistical realities. That's also bad FO reasons rather than cap reasons. That's like if the Bengals had chosen to give 4yr/$36m to Auden Tate rather than 4/$43m to Tyler Boyd and then complained about the system of FA when Boyd left. The difference between the Bailey and the Cueto deals was only $25m over 6 years.... 6yr/$105m vs 6yr/$130m. It wasn't like it was an outlandish amount of money for a guy who was already an established ace and Cy Young candidate.

- - -

Probably not, simply because of the nature that a large chunk of drafted players are 17-18-year-old kids. You're getting 21-24-year-olds in the NFL. AJ Green was a 23-year-old as a rookie in the NFL. Imagine if he was 5 years younger and you had to hope and assume he'd grow to the size/ability/etc over the next 4 years while staying healthy.

That's also why they have so many picks each year. In 2019, there were 1,217 players drafted and that's not counting international signees, international draft, etc. It's a system with more failures because it's a system with more picks, but I think it's better than the NFL because they seem to be much more thorough in searching everywhere for talent so less probably falls through the cracks. 


(EDIT: Maybe the NBA outside of the Top-3 picks? I don't follow the sport, but I just looked and in the 5 drafts between 2015-2019, there were 15 guys who were All-Stars out of the 150 picks, and 9 of those 15 were Top-3 picks leaving just 6 out of the other 135 first rounders.)

(04-28-2021, 01:19 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: It is hard to judge the ownership group in a sport with no salary cap.

I know that won't be popular but they just can't compete with the Dodgers and Angels and Yankees and Red Sox who can buy their way out of mistakes. When they screw up on a contract like Bailey's which might have been before the new owners I'd have to check, it really screws them for years.

It sucks, but it is just the world of baseball

There's truth to this, but it's not all about hunting big game free agents for those teams.  The Yankees and especially the Dodgers have had outstanding homegrown talent lately.  The Reds can excuse not spending big vs those teams, but they can't excuse failing to develop talent.  Lord knows they've had some chances to get talent in drafts and fire sales.  They just happen to really suck at dealing, development, and to some extent drafting.  There's no excuse for that whatsoever when it's the only chance they have to compete.