(03-30-2021, 05:42 PM)bengals67 Wrote: I respectfully disagree and I don't know why folks cannot just debate these issues.

It’s not an agree or disagree issue. It’s the facts. Mike Brown has not been nearly as obsessed with the “shiny toys” in the 1st round as people on this board like to claim. The numbers are right there in black and white.

(03-30-2021, 05:43 PM)jj22 Wrote: The fact that we have to go all the way back to Jerry Rice speaks volumes.

Well, since he used merely getting to Super Bowls like Munoz did, we really don’t have to. Plenty of elite WR’s have helped their team get there.

(03-30-2021, 05:30 PM)bengals67 Wrote: I'm not saying Sewell is for sure Munoz or that Chase is for sure AJ.

But who would you rather have- Munoz or AJ?

Which of those guys went to a Super Bowl?

what I am saying is no one wins the Super Bowl because they have a top 5 WR. They mostly win because they have great lines that control the line of scrimmage both ways and a great QB who has time to go through his progressions.

I do not see how Bengals can turn down the best o lineman in this draft- Sewell or the northwestern guy who they probably can get with the 8th pick, for a WR who best case scenario might be AJ or Julio Jones, both of whom are great plyers. 

Same BS reasoning led to John Ross. 

( and the two  OTs we picked in the same year were not the consensus  top one or two O leman in that draft. They were guys Alexander loved at the place they were drafted. Ogbuehi was 21 and Fisher was 53.  That is a bad comparison)

Jerry Rice has a helluva lot more rings than Munoz.  

How many SB's did Joe Thomas get to? Willie?  Levi?  Andre?  Ogbuehi?

What was Whit during AJ's playoff runs, chopped liver?

That's not to say Sewell wouldn't be a great pick, but outdated tropes aren't why he should be the pick.

(03-30-2021, 05:43 PM)jj22 Wrote: The fact that we have to go all the way back to Jerry Rice speaks volumes.

Irvin?  Harrison?  Thomas?

(03-30-2021, 05:58 PM)Whatever Wrote: Irvin?  Harrison?  Thomas?

Why go that far back??? Tyreek Hill?

(03-30-2021, 06:13 PM)jason Wrote: Why go that far back??? Tyreek Hill?

But they got him in the 5th round! Clearly we can just do that too right?

(03-30-2021, 06:24 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: But they got him in the 5th round! Clearly we can just do that too right?

Right after we draft a 5x All Pro LT in the 4th like GB did with David Bakhtiari but before we draft the next GOAT QB in the 6th.  

whoever we wind up taking, we are going to get an absolute stud. With the likely run on quarterbacks, we should wind up with either Sewell, Chase or Pitts as a darkhorse. Daniel Jeremiah has Pitts as the #2 player on the big board and chase as his 2rd. Slater at 9th and Sewell at 12. Whoever we take, we will be a better team for it. I think we need a stud receiver more than a tackle at this moment. Jonah is going to be a good/great left tackle. How do we know Sewell or Jonah will settle for playing right tackle and we don't end up with a situation like Brown in Baltimore who is not going to re-sign as a right tackle and demanding a trade. I think our major weakness is our guards, and I don't know if we should take a guy to play at guard that high knowing we likely won't extend them, just basing that off of the past.

I hope that they land a top interior lineman in round 2. Wish they addressed it better in FA.

https://www.nfl.com/news/daniel-jeremiah-s-top-50-2021-nfl-draft-prospect-rankings-3-0

(03-30-2021, 05:49 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Well, since he used merely getting to Super Bowls like Munoz did, we really don’t have to. Plenty of elite WR’s have helped their team get there.

The point wasn't that a dominant WR cannot get a team to a SB. The point was that a dominant OT/OL can get teams to the SB no matter who the receivers & backs are, as long as the QB is good. And our QB is better than good.

But the reverse is not true. A great QB, with great WRs does not mean crap if your line stinks. Just rewatch the SB.

Now, if you think Sewell is a just a run of the mill OT prospect, not that much better than the #5-#6 OT prospect we could land at 38, then we should take Chase.

But if you think Sewell is a generational OT talent, he has to be the pick. OT is a more foundational spot than WR.

(03-31-2021, 12:22 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: The point wasn't that a dominant WR cannot get a team to a SB. The point was that a dominant OT/OL can get teams to the SB no matter who the receivers & backs are, as long as the QB is good. And our QB is better than good.

But the reverse is not true. A great QB, with great WRs does not mean crap if your line stinks. Just rewatch the SB.

Now, if you think Sewell is a just a run of the mill OT prospect, not that much better than the #5-#6 OT prospect we could land at 38, then we should take Chase.

But if you think Sewell is a generational OT talent, he has to be the pick. OT is a more foundational spot than WR.

I’m all for taking Sewell. I’ve said it a million times. But people really need to stop acting like Chase would be a bad pick. He’s going to be a stud.

(03-31-2021, 01:08 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’m all for taking Sewell. I’ve said it a million times. But people really need to stop acting like Chase would be a bad pick. He’s going to be a stud.

I mean Chase could be a bust or a diva or something you never know.

(03-31-2021, 02:36 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: I mean Chase could be a bust or a diva or something you never know.

Our QB is literally vouching for the kid, but yeah sure, he could be a “diva” *rolls eyes*

Some of you are really working hard to not like the possibility of adding a fantastic prospect.

(03-31-2021, 02:48 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Our QB is literally vouching for the kid, but yeah sure, he could be a “diva” *rolls eyes*

Some of you are really working hard to not like the possibility of adding a fantastic prospect.

I'm fine with drafting Chase. I'm just saying he could be a bust like anyone else. 

My first choice I think is Sewell with Chase being my second choice.

If we walk away with Sewell/Chase/Pitts I'll be happy.

(03-30-2021, 05:30 PM)bengals67 Wrote: I'm not saying Sewell is for sure Munoz or that Chase is for sure AJ.

But who would you rather have- Munoz or AJ?

Which of those guys went to a Super Bowl?

what I am saying is no one wins the Super Bowl because they have a top 5 WR. They mostly win because they have great lines that control the line of scrimmage both ways and a great QB who has time to go through his progressions.

I do not see how Bengals can turn down the best o lineman in this draft- Sewell or the northwestern guy who they probably can get with the 8th pick, for a WR who best case scenario might be AJ or Julio Jones, both of whom are great plyers. 

Same BS reasoning led to John Ross. 

( and the two  OTs we picked in the same year were not the consensus  top one or two O leman in that draft. They were guys Alexander loved at the place they were drafted. Ogbuehi was 21 and Fisher was 53.  That is a bad comparison)

Which one went to a Super Bowl? Munoz, twice. And that's a messed up metric. Anthony had:
Munoz went to the Super Bowls with  Kenny Anderson and Boomer Esiason. 2 great Quarterbacks. 
In Super Bowl 16, Anderson led the league in passing, making him league MVP. Anderson had Collinsworth, Ross and Curtis to throw to, and Pete Johnson and Archie Griffin to run the rock. We had Riley, Breeden and Reggie Williams, Fulcher and Krumrie on defense. 
In Super Bowl 23, there were 6 Pro Bowlers on offense on the team and Esiason's season passing rating was 97.4 making him league MVP. 
The lines not only included Munoz, they also included Montoya, Lapham, Kozerski, Blados 

AJ had..... Andy Dalton. 

I think sometimes we forget just how good the Bengals 2 Super Bowl teams were. 

(03-31-2021, 03:58 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: I'm fine with drafting Chase. I'm just saying he could be a bust like anyone else. 

My first choice I think is Sewell with Chase being my second choice.

If we walk away with Sewell/Chase/Pitts I'll be happy.

As of last week, my choice was Sewell then Chase. Now, with the signing or Reiff, I'm Chase then Sewell. But I will be happy either way as well.

(03-31-2021, 08:44 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Which one went to a Super Bowl? Munoz, twice. And that's a messed up metric. Anthony had:
Munoz went to the Super Bowls with  Kenny Anderson and Boomer Esiason. 2 great Quarterbacks. 
In Super Bowl 16, Anderson led the league in passing, making him league MVP
In Super Bowl 23, there were 6 Pro Bowlers on offense on the team and Esiason's season passing rating was 97.4 making him league MVP. Anderson had Collinsworth, Ross and Curtis to throw to, and Pete Johnson and Archis Griffin to run the rock. We had Riley, Breeden and Reggie Williams, Fulcher and Krumrie on defense. 
The lines not only included Munoz, they also included Montoya, Lapham, Kozerski, Blados 

AJ had..... Andy Dalton. 

I think sometimes we forget just how good the Bengals 2 Super Bowl teams were. 

So what you are saying is that the team that took a high first round OT and the next year a 2nd round WR and then went on to go to two Super Bowls with both of them?

That is sooooo weird.

I want the Bengals to take an elite level, high end player and not just a bunch of avg "guys".

The Bengals have enough avg guys. They need elite guys to raise the levels in their position rooms.

I don't care who it is as long as they are top shelf, elite talents. Not just top 15 or top 25 guys. I mean, I think they need clear cut #1 monsters.

Personally, as far as THIS draft goes, I think Jamaar Chase is the best prospect in the entire draft and you can get a lineman in the 2nd or 3rd who is 80% of what the 1st round options are at those spots (especially at the interior). This draft is LOADED at OL. While with the WR position, that really isn't the case. A lot of the WRs in this class are very short and small. And, the

Benglas just lost their long time #1 guy at the WR spot. They absolutely NEED to replace that guy with a high end, step in now, player... especially with the multiple wide sets they run. Who you going 5 wide with? Boyd, Higgins, Thomas, Tate, aaaaand... Gio???? That's perfect for 15 yard routes. ?

Regardless on if they get Chase or not, a high end, elite prospect would thrill me. Hell, even Justin Tucker 2.0 would thrill me. Just... get... markedly and immediately better!

(03-31-2021, 12:22 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: The point wasn't that a dominant WR cannot get a team to a SB. The point was that a dominant OT/OL can get teams to the SB no matter who the receivers & backs are, as long as the QB is good. And our QB is better than good.

But the reverse is not true. A great QB, with great WRs does not mean crap if your line stinks. Just rewatch the SB.

Now, if you think Sewell is a just a run of the mill OT prospect, not that much better than the #5-#6 OT prospect we could land at 38, then we should take Chase.

But if you think Sewell is a generational OT talent, he has to be the pick. OT is a more foundational spot than WR.

I'm drawing a blank on great QB's with great OL's that made the SB without also having great receivers and/or RB's.  Arguably the '80's Bengals, but that was over 30 years ago.

(03-31-2021, 08:52 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: So what you are saying is that the team that took a high first round OT and the next year a 2nd round WR and then went on to go to two Super Bowls with both of them?

That is sooooo weird.

No, what I'm saying is that the teams that went to the Super Bowls were deep with talent at all positions on both sides of the ball. It's pretty simple really.... as much as I love Munoz, had he been injured and his backup put in, those teams still would have gone. It's a team sport, one position will not get you there. But, as I said, I'm good with Chase or Sewell and will be ecstatic to get either one. But be honest, acting like a guy that has 1.5 years of college ball, and who hasn't played in over a year is going to be as good as the Greatest Offensive Lineman of all time is a bit of a stretch. Maybe he will, but history says he won't.

(03-30-2021, 11:54 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: whoever we wind up taking, we are going to get an absolute stud.  With the likely run on quarterbacks, we should wind up with either Sewell, Chase or Pitts as a darkhorse.  Daniel Jeremiah has Pitts as the #2 player on the big board and chase as his 2rd.  Slater at 9th and Sewell at 12.  Whoever we take, we will be a better team for it.  I think we need a stud receiver more than a tackle at this moment.  Jonah is going to be a good/great left tackle.  How do we know Sewell or Jonah will settle for playing right tackle and we don't end up with a situation like Brown in Baltimore who is not going to re-sign as a right tackle and demanding a trade.  I think our major weakness is our guards, and I don't know if we should take a guy to play at guard that high knowing we likely won't extend them, just basing that off of the past.  

I hope that they land a top interior lineman in round 2.  Wish they addressed it better in FA.

https://www.nfl.com/news/daniel-jeremiah-s-top-50-2021-nfl-draft-prospect-rankings-3-0

I could more easily see taking Chase than the top two o lineman if they had signed Thuney or Zeitler.

Pretty sure all the WRs cited to me as grounds for taking CHase played with top o lines and a great QB who was great because he had a top oline.