(04-04-2021, 08:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Other teams also find WRs all through the draft and udfa's.

Not as common as I see o lineman, the steelers and Patriots are two teams that just get no named guys and considered great o line

(04-04-2021, 09:36 PM)AQIndianHill Wrote: They’re going to have one of the 3 worst defenses in the nfl

The offense can’t overcome that

The chiefs offense couldn’t even do that

Who?

Not the team who added 7 quality starter free agents to their defense the last two years.

(04-04-2021, 09:48 PM)BobJohnson55 Wrote: Not as common as I see o lineman, the steelers and Patriots are two teams that just get no named guys and considered great o line

That just is not true at all.

Last year Steelers O-line had two first round picks and a third rounder starting.

And you can't just pick two teams and claim they prove a point.  That would be like saying that Tom Brady and Kirk Cousins prove that "other teams find great QBs in the 4th round or later".

(04-04-2021, 10:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That just is not true at all.

Last year Steelers O-line had two first round picks and a third rounder starting.

And you can't just pick two teams and claim they prove a point.  That would be like saying that Tom Brady and Kirk Cousins prove that "other teams find great QBs in the 4th round or later".

Except, TB12, Cousins, Wilson, Garrapolo, Dak, Dalton all prove that the rule doesn't always come true. 6/32 non-first rounders show the claim of finding QBs "later" is something that happens rather often actually. 

I'm sure you can easily point out data points that share the same sentiment for any position if you look hard enough.

(04-04-2021, 10:28 PM)WVUHomer Wrote: I'm sure you can easily point out data points that share the same sentiment for any position if you look hard enough.

Actually what happens is that people don't acknowledge how many players are drafted after the first round or signed as UDFA.

Anytime you compare a group of 32 (total first round picks) to a group of a few hundred (total players drafted in later rounds or signed as UDFA) you are going to find a few in the second group that are as good as in the first group.  But when you look at the actual odds and mathematical chances  it is not easy at all.

For example people can point to Prescott and Cousins as proof that you can find a good QB in the 4th round, but the fact is that they are the only two QBs drafted in the fourth round over the last TWENTY YEARS who have had a 4000 yard passing season.  At the same time there have been 22 first round picks who have had 4000 yard passing seasons.

(04-04-2021, 08:16 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: So what round do you expect to get a starting WR in this O-lineman heavy draft?

They can find a quality Z receiver in any of rounds 3-5, or even later if they really know what they're looking for.  I mean, they already have their X and Y receivers, the Z guy doesn't have to be a superstar, but just needs to be good at a few things.

(04-04-2021, 08:23 PM)BobJohnson55 Wrote: But anyways I'm not saying the o line doesn't need more improvement, it does. But it doesn't need 3 straight rounds. Other teams can find solid lineman all through the draft and udfa's.  We have took 1st rounders who were busts. 

I never said "3 straight rounds".  If they take Sewell at #5, then they have 7 picks in 6 other rounds to find a couple more OL, as well as address other areas to improve the roster.

(04-04-2021, 10:47 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: They can find a quality Z receiver in any of rounds 3-5, or even later if they really know what they're looking for.  I mean, they already have their X and Y receivers, the Z guy doesn't have to be a superstar, but just needs to be good at a few things.

We haven’t found a good receiver after the 2nd round since Marvin Jones and Sanu way back in 2012. Personally I’m pretty tired of trying to convince ourselves that guys like Josh Malone, Cody Core, Auden Tate, etc are going to be good. I fell for it myself with Tate. But the truth is good receivers are no easier to find in the later rounds (at least for us) than any other positions.

(04-04-2021, 09:24 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Would not be mad if we went 1.OL 2.OL 3.OL. BPA could easily be OL at each of those picks.

ZT has talked about continuity on the OL. Well get 3 who will play together for 4+ years and worry about their contracts and keeping them together later.

If we run the ball and give our QB time we will be winning games. I wouldn’t  care if our WRs aren’t super flashy or we don’t have big names on our DE depth chart if we are winning.

1. Penei
2. Landon Dickerson
3. Jackson Carman

I’m leaving the vets out on the edges and rolling with a rookie interior that is going to make our OL a strength for years to come as they develop.

They don't necessarily need to sweep the first 3 rounds to adequately improve the OL.  Taking Sewell this year, and playing him at Guard for the season, while Reiff plays out his contract would allow a bit of flex in the immediate need to also improve at Guard.  I am more and more falling in love with the idea of Dickerson in the 2nd.  He's that dominate sort of leader that would ensure that everyone around them knew their assignments prior to the snap.

By going OL back to back in 1 and 2, you're pretty much forced into looking at Pass Rusher and WR in 3 and 4, or making a trade before your guy comes off the board.  That type of game is a bit ballsy by Bengals standards, but so has free agent activity in the past two offseasons.  Who knows, they may surprise us.

(04-04-2021, 10:53 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We haven’t found a good receiver after the 2nd round since Marvin Jones and Sanu way back in 2012. Personally I’m pretty tired of trying to convince ourselves that guys like Josh Malone, Cody Core, Auden Tate, etc are going to be good. I fell for it myself with Tate. But the truth is good receivers are no easier to find in the later rounds (at least for us) than any other positions.

Cody Core was a fantastic receiver, he just wasn't coached up and utilized properly with the Bengals. 

(04-04-2021, 10:53 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We haven’t found a good receiver after the 2nd round since Marvin Jones and Sanu way back in 2012.

Only 5 of the 188 WRs drafted after the second round since 2012 have over 400 career receptions.  Bengals drafted 2 of those 5.  Not a single one of those 188 have as many td receptions as Marvin Jones (51).

So our front office is ELITE when it comes to finding good WRs later in the draft.

(04-04-2021, 11:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Only 5 of the 188 WRs drafted after the second round since 2012 have over 400 career receptions.  Bengals drafted 2 of those 5.  Not a single one of those 188 have as many td receptions as Marvin Jones (51).

So our front office is ELITE when it comes to finding good WRs later in the draft.

Gee I wonder why you picked the oddly random 400 receptions as your benchmark (probably so you could exclude guys like Tyreek Hill). Never change, Fred. Lol

I will keep saying it. Trade for Ertz, I think we can get him for a 3rd round pick in 2022. Then, draft best OT available at #5, I think that is Sewell if he is there. I think that would open up things for OC and ZT.

Ertz
Uzomah
Sample
(They have a developmental 4th TE on roster)

WR
Higgins
Boyd
Thomas
Tate
Draft a WR with 4.4 speed in round 2 Like Marshall from LSU, played with Burrow and played in toughest conference in college football
Then come back in round 5 and draft the smaller, fast and elusive WR
But, to me the key is Ertz as he is a complete TE who can help the running and passing game immediately

(04-04-2021, 10:58 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: They don't necessarily need to sweep the first 3 rounds to adequately improve the OL.  Taking Sewell this year, and playing him at Guard for the season, while Reiff plays out his contract would allow a bit of flex in the immediate need to also improve at Guard.  I am more and more falling in love with the idea of Dickerson in the 2nd.  He's that dominate sort of leader that would ensure that everyone around them knew their assignments prior to the snap.

By going OL back to back in 1 and 2, you're pretty much forced into looking at Pass Rusher and WR in 3 and 4, or making a trade before your guy comes off the board.  That type of game is a bit ballsy by Bengals standards, but so has free agent activity in the past two offseasons.  Who knows, they may surprise us.

We've had articles posted from former NFL players that it isn't so simple to just have guys change sides and positions, though.  Everyone likes to look at the success we had playing Whit at G, but don't look at the failures of Andre Smith and Fred Johnson at G.  It's easy for us to say that we should plug Sewell in at G and it will be an improvement, but none of us has had the opportunity to work with him closely enough to make the determination as to whether he can play G or not. If he can, that's great, but people need to realize there's a big chance that he can't.

The other reality is that we need a starting X/Z WR and we only have 4 non-PS WR's on the roster.  Your chances of finding an immediate starter there are extremely thin in rounds 3+.  As much as we should try to improve our OL, this offense is completely dead in the water if Boyd or Higgins goes down.  

We are basically WR and OL in 1 and 2.  Whichever we don't get in 1, we have to get in 2.  We pretty much have to take a 2nd WR for a depth chart fill, though that can be a Day 3 pick.  It would be smart to get a T to groom due to the depth of the class relatively early, as well.  

(04-04-2021, 10:28 PM)WVUHomer Wrote: Except, TB12, Cousins, Wilson, Garrapolo, Dak, Dalton all prove that the rule doesn't always come true. 6/32 non-first rounders show the claim of finding QBs "later" is something that happens rather often actually. 

I'm sure you can easily point out data points that share the same sentiment for any position if you look hard enough.

6/32? If you're spreading that over years, you're talking about hundreds of players compared to a small number.

(04-05-2021, 12:27 AM)Whatever Wrote: We've had articles posted from former NFL players that it isn't so simple to just have guys change sides and positions, though.  Everyone likes to look at the success we had playing Whit at G, but don't look at the failures of Andre Smith and Fred Johnson at G.  It's easy for us to say that we should plug Sewell in at G and it will be an improvement, but none of us has had the opportunity to work with him closely enough to make the determination as to whether he can play G or not. If he can, that's great, but people need to realize there's a big chance that he can't.

The other reality is that we need a starting X/Z WR and we only have 4 non-PS WR's on the roster.  Your chances of finding an immediate starter there are extremely thin in rounds 3+.  As much as we should try to improve our OL, this offense is completely dead in the water if Boyd or Higgins goes down.  

We are basically WR and OL in 1 and 2.  Whichever we don't get in 1, we have to get in 2.  We pretty much have to take a 2nd WR for a depth chart fill, though that can be a Day 3 pick.  It would be smart to get a T to groom due to the depth of the class relatively early, as well.  

I dunno on us being dead in the water of boyd or higgins goes down. That depends on the line.

Joe isn't Andy dalton. We don't have to have the best receivers in the league. Or running backs. Give Joe time to let plays develope and players are going to elevate.

(04-05-2021, 12:27 AM)Whatever Wrote: We've had articles posted from former NFL players that it isn't so simple to just have guys change sides and positions, though.  Everyone likes to look at the success we had playing Whit at G, but don't look at the failures of Andre Smith and Fred Johnson at G.  It's easy for us to say that we should plug Sewell in at G and it will be an improvement, but none of us has had the opportunity to work with him closely enough to make the determination as to whether he can play G or not. If he can, that's great, but people need to realize there's a big chance that he can't.

The other reality is that we need a starting X/Z WR and we only have 4 non-PS WR's on the roster.  Your chances of finding an immediate starter there are extremely thin in rounds 3+.  As much as we should try to improve our OL, this offense is completely dead in the water if Boyd or Higgins goes down.  

We are basically WR and OL in 1 and 2.  Whichever we don't get in 1, we have to get in 2.  We pretty much have to take a 2nd WR for a depth chart fill, though that can be a Day 3 pick.  It would be smart to get a T to groom due to the depth of the class relatively early, as well.  

I'm not arguing for Sewell or for chase or for Pitts with this post...

I just want to point at that every name of every OL target that one side of the debate wants in round 2, is a tackle with the exception of Wyatt Davis the guard from Ohio State who has injury concerns as he was helped off the field 3 times in the shortened season.

Leatherwood, Jenkins, Mayfield, Eichenburg, Cosmi, etc all played Tackle. 

So unless we draft Davis, Trey Smith for Guard, or Creed Humphrey at center, we will be moving someone on the line.

(04-04-2021, 10:53 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We haven’t found a good receiver after the 2nd round since Marvin Jones and Sanu way back in 2012. Personally I’m pretty tired of trying to convince ourselves that guys like Josh Malone, Cody Core, Auden Tate, etc are going to be good. I fell for it myself with Tate. But the truth is good receivers are no easier to find in the later rounds (at least for us) than any other positions.

Then convince yourself that Higgins and Boyd are good then ask yourself who was the #3 WR for the last 10 super bowl winners

(04-04-2021, 10:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That just is not true at all.

Last year Steelers O-line had two first round picks and a third rounder starting.

And you can't just pick two teams and claim they prove a point.  That would be like saying that Tom Brady and Kirk Cousins prove that "other teams find great QBs in the 4th round or later".

Them are very successful teams that dont draft o lineman in the first or second every year,they even put udfa's on the line. I can't think of any all pro line team that were high picks except maybe the cowboys that one year they had Pollack. And how did that play out they lost their 1st round playoff game,then that line didn't even stick together. 

The guy we wanted from the Patriots was like a 3rd round pick. And its probably not just them two teams. I bet I could do research on every team and they dont have all first or 2nd rounders. 

(04-05-2021, 12:40 AM)Benton Wrote: I dunno on us being dead in the water of boyd or higgins goes down. That depends on the line.

Joe isn't Andy dalton. We don't have to have the best receivers in the league. Or running backs. Give Joe time to let plays develope and players are going to elevate.

I just don’t understand what some of you are seeing. We had a pretty bad offense even with Boyd and Higgins. And no it was not just the OL. They were not good at all in red zone even when they had time, and we don’t have a single player that’s capable of taking it to the house on any given play.

Burrow is not going to elevate guys like Tate, Thomas, and Morgan.