(04-06-2021, 01:13 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: How do we know Higgins was "elevated" by Joe Burrow?  He was a high 2nd round pick with loads of talent coming out of the draft. 

How do we know he doesn't put up even bigger numbers with QB's who were actually elite last year (Rodgers, Mahomes, Watson, etc.)?

How do we know he doesn't put up comperable numbers with middle of the road QB's (Derek Carr, Matt Stafford, Ryan Tannenhill, etc.)?

The answer is that we don't know any of those these things, and it's silly to think that Joe Burrow elevated Tee Higgins to another level that most QB's would not have. 

Well, if you watched, you saw the tight windows Burrow was throwing into last year. You think Higgins would have had the same success with Dalton (not to bash on Andy, I like Andy)

(04-06-2021, 01:46 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Well, if you watched, you saw the tight windows Burrow was throwing into last year. You think Higgins would have had the same success with Dalton (not to bash on Andy, I like Andy)

Wasn't aware that "Higgins was elevated by an elite QB" translated to "Joe Burrow is better than Andy Dalton."

Tee was good last season, and we started seeing as he got comfortable similarities to Chad Johnson in the toe tip control and sideline catches.

(04-06-2021, 09:28 AM)TJ528 Wrote: Is it possible Katie and Troy opened the pocketbook a little deeper and gave him more $$$ to come back to Cincinnati?  I mean the Jets and Bengals OL are both pretty much train wrecks.   Katie/Troy/Duke all know the last time Pollack was here his OL was average, not good, not great but average enough not to get the QB killed.   

I was just always under the belief that Zac wanted his own people on his staff when he came into town.  He wanted to set a culture of his own and that meant his own staff.  He didn't keep anyone i don't believe except Bicknell and he's gone now.  So i think if Pollack hadn't came back we'd be rid of all the staff from Marvin Lewis' team.   

And I reiterate... http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-The-difference-Pollack-will-make?pid=1011374#pid1011374

(04-06-2021, 11:35 AM)Synric Wrote: I like the Jim Mora take on Frank Pollack.

He's going to do a great job," Jim Mora Jr. said. "He coaches from the perspective of the player. He played the position. He played at a high level. He understands how to coach the player from a player's perspective. I think he's a great addition."

Department of redundancy department

(04-06-2021, 02:48 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Wasn't aware that "Higgins was elevated by an elite QB" translated to "Joe Burrow is better than Andy Dalton."

Well now you are....

I’d say Tee helped Burrow as much as Burrow helped Tee. Remember the sideline catches that looked like he was channeling Chad Johnson? Yes Tee needs to work a little on the drops but he was good last season.

(04-06-2021, 01:46 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Well, if you watched, you saw the tight windows Burrow was throwing into last year. You think Higgins would have had the same success with Dalton (not to bash on Andy, I like Andy)

If you watched you saw Higgins make incredible sideline catches.  That means Burrow would not have had as much success without him.

And, yes, I believe Higgins would have had just as much success with Andy at QB.  Dalton had multiple seasons with a higher passer rating than Burrow had last year.

(04-06-2021, 09:28 AM)TJ528 Wrote: Is it possible Katie and Troy opened the pocketbook a little deeper and gave him more $$$ to come back to Cincinnati?  I mean the Jets and Bengals OL are both pretty much train wrecks.   Katie/Troy/Duke all know the last time Pollack was here his OL was average, not good, not great but average enough not to get the QB killed.   

I was just always under the belief that Zac wanted his own people on his staff when he came into town.  He wanted to set a culture of his own and that meant his own staff.  He didn't keep anyone i don't believe except Bicknell and he's gone now.  So i think if Pollack hadn't came back we'd be rid of all the staff from Marvin Lewis' team.   

Darrin Simmons
Robert Livingston
Alex Van Pelt
Bob Bicknell

Those are the 4 holdovers from Lewis's final staff that were on Taylor's first staff.

I thought Van Pelt bolted in 2019 as well. My fault.

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When looking at the Jets performance remember that Darnold was also BAD at QB - he caused some of those sacks. Also Pollack coached up Mekhi Becton nicely among others.

I have to admit I don't get this idea that every move the Bengals make must be bad. Pollack had crud to work with the one year we had him and he got them playing somewhat decently. He also had crud in NY but a bad QB made it worse. I have no reason to think other than that he will do well for us.

(04-05-2021, 12:16 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Burrow might be elite at some point, but he’s not yet. That’s what you guys don’t seem to understand.

Oh, most of us understand that, but what you don't seem to understand is that he won't make it to elite if he only lasts 9 and a half games a season.

I like Tee Higgins and I think he's a Hell of a player . . . but I wanted his draft spot to be OL LAST year, for both Joes.

I like Pollack, but he's not a cure-all. He didn't magically fix the line in 2018.

I know the current conversation in this thread is past the thread title, but I just wanted to say that much.

All the more reason to get Sewell. If you build it (O-Line), they (success) will come. Well, at least once Taylor and Anarumo are gone.

Is he an improvement? Almost definitely so that’s a good thing. Hopefully his coaching can make a more cohesive unit of our offensive front because at times last season it looked like a line of turnstiles.

(04-07-2021, 01:57 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Oh, most of us understand that, but what you don't seem to understand is that he won't make it to elite if he only lasts 9 and a half games a season.

I like Tee Higgins and I think he's a Hell of a player . . . but I wanted his draft spot to be OL LAST year, for both Joes.

I understand it all too well. I hated seeing him get injured as much as anyone. But it’s not doom and gloom if we don’t go OT at 5. This year’s draft class is much deeper on the OL. A bunch of the guys that will go on day two would have been 1st rounders last year.

(04-07-2021, 06:15 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I understand it all too well. I hated seeing him get injured as much as anyone. But it’s not doom and gloom if we don’t go OT at 5. This year’s draft class is much deeper on the OL. A bunch of the guys that will go on day two would have been 1st rounders last year.

So here's my question though.  It usually takes what 2-3 years to really review a draft for a football team while those football players develop.  

In 3 years, if we draft Chase and don't hit one 1 single OL we draft in rounds 2-7 will those same people say we had a successful draft because we landed Chase?  

All I heard about Michael Jordan at Ohio State was this kid has a motor.  Great young player.  He's going to be a pro.  He's a pro but he's crap as a pro.  Same thing for pretty much every OL we've draft since 2015.  When you have a hit ratio of 1 out of i believe it's 9 OL drafted since 2015 that's a pretty bad odds going into the draft.  

The only OL we've really hit on in the draft since 2015 is Jonah Williams.  He's shown he's a nice player, but he's also shown that he's made of glass so far.  So we'll see what his development is like this year.  

(04-07-2021, 06:15 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I understand it all too well. I hated seeing him get injured as much as anyone. But it’s not doom and gloom if we don’t go OT at 5. This year’s draft class is much deeper on the OL. A bunch of the guys that will go on day two would have been 1st rounders last year.

Burrow was throwing so much, not just because they were always behind, he was throwing so much because they couldn't run the ball with any consistency. This isn't last year so no need to make the same mistake twice and maybe a few day two OL would have gone in the 1st, not a bunch.

If they go OL the first two picks, then by your standards comparing last year, they are picking up two 1st round OL. Most are happy with Sewell or Slater playing inside for a year and XSF and Spain fighting for the other G slot but what if they draft someone that beats out Spain and XSF? Now you're looking at an even BETTER O-Line. I seriously doubt that they go OL the first two picks but I wouldn't be sad to see it happen. Two early OL would be great competition to push each other in ways that Pollack couldn't.

Remember, last year I wanted them to trade back to #8 with Carolina and then trade back again to basically pick up two more 1st round picks this year. I wanted them to pick up multiple OL for Mixon last year, who didn't last as long as Burrow in 2020, and pick up their QB in this draft to sit for a year behind Dalton. Also remember that I've said for years, I really like what they are doing up in Buffalo. They built most of their team before they added their rookie QB. Cincy was rock bottom when they took Burrow and O-line was the weakest unit on the team.

So I recently looked at the OLine breakdowns for a few of our games. Not all of them, but enough to see some patterns.

#1 - Missed assignments - guys blocking the wrong player, not checking, not communicating at the LOS
#2 - Poor technique - Engaging improperly, turning their guy the wrong way, pushing blockers into the pocket

^^^^
This is coaching and preparation and has nothing to do with ability.

So to me Pollack coming back is a double blessing. #1 - He's a damn good coach the players love, #2 - He's replacing an abysmal coach the players disliked.

No he won't be a miracle worker, but a large portion of our poor line play was not lack of ability, but lack of coaching, lack of preparation and scheme dysfunction.

Sorry for reviving an couple week old thread, but I felt it was better than starting a new one.

(04-30-2021, 05:36 PM)Stewy Wrote: So I recently looked at the OLine breakdowns for a few of our games.  Not all of them, but enough to see some patterns.

#1 - Missed assignments - guys blocking the wrong player, not checking, not communicating at the LOS
#2 - Poor technique - Engaging improperly, turning their guy the wrong way, pushing blockers into the pocket

^^^^
This is coaching and preparation and has nothing to do with ability.

So to me Pollack coming back is a double blessing.  #1 - He's a damn good coach the players love, #2 - He's replacing an abysmal coach the players disliked.

No he won't be a miracle worker, but a large portion of our poor line play was not lack of ability, but lack of coaching, lack of preparation and scheme dysfunction.

Sorry for reviving an couple week old thread, but I felt it was better than starting a new one.

Thanks for reviving it Stewy. You are spot on. Coaching was the biggest problem with the OL last year, the players looked
lost out there especially at picking up the blitz or not even engaging the guy in front of them. When Spain came in it seemed
to improve as he is a knowledgable vet (don't give me PFF crap). I think with getting Pollack back here and having all these
guys having a full offseason while adding Reiff and some Draft picks we might be alright, maybe better than alright.

(04-03-2021, 09:15 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:

Quinton Spain career pass blocking gradea and then last year under Jim Turner. pic.twitter.com/pU8RdVx1qU

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) April 1, 2021

Just reminding everyone what I am referring to from the first page of this thread.

(04-30-2021, 05:55 PM)Stewy Wrote: Just reminding everyone what I am referring to from the first page of this thread.

Wow and I didn't want any PFF crap lol

But yeah, that is pretty staggering.