(04-07-2021, 08:30 PM)BobJohnson55 Wrote: Make that make sense?

WTF??

The Steelers O-line has been anchored for year by two elite first round picks Maurkice Pouncey (9 X Pro Bowl, 2 X All Pro) and David DeCastro (6 X Pro Bowl, 2 X All Pro).

Last year those two were joined by 3rd round pick Chukwuma Okoafor (RT),

Before they had Okorafor at RT Second Round pick Marcus Gilbert started there for 8 seasons.

Probably no team has 5 starting O-linemen who are high draft picks, but the Steelers have always had plenty of high draft picks across their O-line.

A quick look at the O-lines of some of the best teams in the league last year

Seahawks...2 first round, 1 second round 1 third round
Rams.........3 second round picks
Saints.......3 firsts, 1 second, 1 third
Bucs.........1 first, 2 seconds, 1 third
Chiefs........started the season with a first and 2 second rounders.  The reason they lost the Super Bowl is they had two of those starters out with injury(All-Pro's Mitchell Shwartz and Kelichi Osemele)
Browns.......2 firsts, 1 second
Colts..........3 first, 1 second
Dolphins......2 firsts, 1 second


Sure there are some exceptions to the rule, but in general the claim that good teams build O-lines around middle and late round picks is 100% bullshit.  It is like saying the Bucs won the Super Bowl last year with a sixth round pick at QB so no team should use a first round pick on a QB.

(04-07-2021, 09:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: A quick look at the O-lines of some of the best teams in the league last year

Seahawks...2 first round, 1 second round 1 third round
Rams.........3 second round picks
Saints.......3 firsts, 1 second, 1 third
Bucs.........1 first, 2 seconds, 1 third
Chiefs........started the season with a first and 2 second rounders.  The reason they lost the Super Bowl is they had two of those starters out with injury(All-Pro's Mitchell Shwartz and Kelichi Osemele)
Browns.......2 firsts, 1 second
Colts..........3 first, 1 second
Dolphins......2 firsts, 1 second


Sure there are some exceptions to the rule, but in general the claim that good teams build O-lines around middle and late round picks is 100% bullshit.  It is like saying the Bucs won the Super Bowl last year with a sixth round pick at QB so no team should use a first round pick on a QB.

But, but, but . . . I want Chaaaaase!

(04-07-2021, 09:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: A quick look at the O-lines of some of the best teams in the league last year

Seahawks...2 first round, 1 second round 1 third round
Rams.........3 second round picks
Saints.......3 firsts, 1 second, 1 third
Bucs.........1 first, 2 seconds, 1 third
Chiefs........started the season with a first and 2 second rounders.  The reason they lost the Super Bowl is they had two of those starters out with injury(All-Pro's Mitchell Shwartz and Kelichi Osemele)
Browns.......2 firsts, 1 second
Colts..........3 first, 1 second
Dolphins......2 firsts, 1 second


Sure there are some exceptions to the rule, but in general the claim that good teams build O-lines around middle and late round picks is 100% bullshit.  It is like saying the Bucs won the Super Bowl last year with a sixth round pick at QB so no team should use a first round pick on a QB.

I never claimed they were all late round picks on teams lol and yeah the steelers can draft a 3rd rounder and toss him out to tackle and they are still considered elite,the saints is a good one with their high draft picks plus drew brees but that equals no superbowl getting beat in the playoffs every year. 

The Bengals on the other hand whiff on first round o lineman and couldn't develop anyone else besides boling in the late rounds. And we are considered a dumpster fire o line. That's my frustration. And why I'm leery about taking another 1st round over hyped lineman that's untested and just let him sit on the bench. While we lose some more. 

(04-07-2021, 09:41 PM)BobJohnson55 Wrote: the saints is a good one with their high draft picks plus drew brees but that equals no superbowl getting beat in the playoffs every year. 

Drew Brees won 9 postseason games including a Super Bowl.

(04-07-2021, 09:41 PM)BobJohnson55 Wrote:  the steelers can draft a 3rd rounder and toss him out to tackle and they are still considered elite

The reason they are elite is because they have had two elite All-Pro first round picks playing with that 3rd round OT.

And somehow that convinces you that the Bengals should not use a first round pick on an O-lineman?

WTF kind of logic is that?

(04-07-2021, 09:41 PM)BobJohnson55 Wrote: The Bengals on the other hand whiff on first round o lineman 

As well as first round WRs like Ross.

So according to your logic we shouldn't draft a WR in the first round, right?

(04-07-2021, 10:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The reason they are elite is because they have had two elite All-Pro first round picks playing with that 3rd round OT.

And somehow that convinces you that the Bengals should not use a first round pick on an O-lineman?

WTF kind of logic is that?

You still did not answer my question. Who was the 3rd 1st rounder? They had decastro and they had a washed up 1st round center that just retired,and they are considered elite every year. Oh btw ,we just added riley reiff and even though we did not draft him,he is a 1st rounde . That gives us 2 first round OT's , we need a 3rd now? 

(04-07-2021, 09:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: A quick look at the O-lines of some of the best teams in the league last year

Seahawks...2 first round, 1 second round 1 third round
Rams.........3 second round picks
Saints.......3 firsts, 1 second, 1 third
Bucs.........1 first, 2 seconds, 1 third
Chiefs........started the season with a first and 2 second rounders.  The reason they lost the Super Bowl is they had two of those starters out with injury(All-Pro's Mitchell Shwartz and Kelichi Osemele)
Browns.......2 firsts, 1 second
Colts..........3 first, 1 second
Dolphins......2 firsts, 1 second


Sure there are some exceptions to the rule, but in general the claim that good teams build O-lines around middle and late round picks is 100% bullshit.  It is like saying the Bucs won the Super Bowl last year with a sixth round pick at QB so no team should use a first round pick on a QB.

The problem is a lot of the guys you're counting aren't playing for the team that drafted them.  While successful teams have guys that were picked high playing on their OL, they aren't blowing 1st after 1st on OL.  Most teams in the playoffs this past year have only spent 3-4 1st round picks on OL this century.  The Bengals have spent 6, and by your criteria have 2 1st's and a 2nd on their starting OL.  

If we're drafting Sewell, we should be drafting him because we think he's the best prospect, not some false belief that good teams just dump 1st after 1st into their OL.

(04-07-2021, 10:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: As well as first round WRs like Ross.

So according to your logic we shouldn't draft a WR in the first round, right?

He's the only wide out that was a bust,because he was too little and injury prone for the NFL and they wanted him to play the outside. That's why I'm highly against drafting a short receiver in the 2nd. 

(04-07-2021, 10:24 PM)BobJohnson55 Wrote: You still did not answer my question. Who was the 3rd 1st rounder? They had decastro and they had a washed up 1st round center that just retired,and they are considered elite every year. Oh btw ,we just added riley reiff and even though we did not draft him,he is a 1st rounde . That gives us 2 first round OT's , we need a 3rd now? 

Price was 1st round, too. The Bengals have 3 1st rounders at the OL position.

(04-07-2021, 10:25 PM)Whatever Wrote: If we're drafting Sewell, we should be drafting him because we think he's the best prospect, not some false belief that good teams just dump 1st after 1st into their OL.

Agree 100%.

And if we pass on him it should not be because of some false belief that good teams just build their O-lines with middle and late round picks.

(04-07-2021, 10:54 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Price was 1st round, too. The Bengals have 3 1st rounders at the OL position.

4. You forgot to count Penei

(04-07-2021, 10:25 PM)Whatever Wrote:   While successful teams have guys that were picked high playing on their OL, they aren't blowing 1st after 1st on OL.  Most teams in the playoffs this past year have only spent 3-4 1st round picks on OL this century.  The Bengals have spent 6,

So a difference of two picks over twenty years  equals "blowing 1st round after 1st round on OL"?

Seattle and Miami who both made the playoffs last year have also used 6 first round picks on O-linemen this century.  Cleveland used 5.

Meanwhile the 3 winningest teams of this century (NE. Pitt, GB) combined have used a grand total of 4 first round picks on WRs this century.

I really don't care what other teams have done because other teams have different needs.

We already have two very good WRs under contract for 3 more years and we only need 3 starters.

On the O-line we have Jonah who could possibly be good (but can't stay healthy) under contract for 3 more years and Reiff under contract for one more year. And we need 5 starters.

(04-07-2021, 10:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Agree 100%.

And if we pass on him it should not be because of some false belief that good teams just build their O-lines with middle and late round picks.

Once again I did not say they were all late rounders on all teams. I was implying teams take o lineman all through the draft and make them work. We have took several high lineman in the past ten years. None of them panned out. And the highly drafted o lineman teams in the league aren't that successful.  Look at Atlanta, look at Dallas who's line lasted 1 year and didn't win a playoff game. Look at our own bengals with the 2005 o line,great o line,lasted 1 year. And we already have two 1st round tackles on our team. 

I'll say it again,our fanbase acts like they want to put together the best o line ever created or trying to bring back the 88 o line. Where even that didn't help us win the superbowl.  

(04-07-2021, 11:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Meanwhile the 3 winningest teams of this century (NE. Pitt, GB) combined have used a grand total of 4 first round picks on WRs this century.

You just proved my point,that two of the most successful teams in the league, does not draft high o lineman all the time, I know they both can find linemen anywhere,even udfa's and they are considered elite o line every year. I can't remember since I've been a fan of them having a dumpster fire o line. 

Edit- I was focused on the Pat's and the steelers but yeah even green bay does it and at least they make it to the nfc championship a lot. Seattle is another team ,not sure about last year,but they said Russell didn't have a o line,he still goes to the playoffs every year.

Updated a few more division into that big list.

Trying my best to list out what teams were expecting to start the season vs what ended up starting. Obviously I really only keep up with the Bengals that closely but I'm trying to figure out the other lineups.

I do feel like in general our offensive line pedigree seems much lower than a lot of the other NFL teams so far. Also worth noting teams that do seem to have less highly drafted players also have had good players leave recently too.

I'll probably finish the rest of it tonight maybe.

(04-07-2021, 11:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I really don't care what other teams have done because other teams have different needs.

We already have two very good WRs under contract for 3 more years and we only need 3 starters.

On the O-line we have Jonah who could possibly be good (but can't stay healthy) under contract for 3 more years and Reiff under contract for one more year.  And we need 5 starters.

The Bengals are running 4 & 5 wide sets a ton now w Joe Burrow. The WRs last year got horrible separation. Been that way for 3-4 years.

I cannot imagine the Bengals running 5 wide w Boyd, Higgins, Thomas, Tate, & Stanley Morgan.

^ That would actually be a WORSE 5 man unit than the starting O line.

I get the point that 5 of them are on the field at once all the time. I just see a way deeper oline class this year where guys in the 2nd or 3rd would have previously been 1st & 2nd rounders. The WR group is deep this year, but weird. The better guys after Chase that are expected to be there in the 2nd are all under 6' tall and don't really fit the Bengals.

Chase reminds me of a bigger, faster, stronger Steve Smith. Sewell is turning out to be more mythical than real. Measured just under 6'5" with 33 1/4" arms. That is wayyyyy on the smaller side for a a top tier OT. The Bengals cannot take a G at 5.

(04-08-2021, 01:17 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: Updated a few more division into that big list.

Trying my best to list out what teams were expecting to start the season vs what ended up starting. Obviously I really only keep up with the Bengals that closely but I'm trying to figure out the other lineups.

I do feel like in general our offensive line pedigree seems much lower than a lot of the other NFL teams so far. Also worth noting teams that do seem to have less highly drafted players also have had good players leave recently too.

I'll probably finish the rest of it tonight maybe.

I appreciate your work,you did a better job then I could. Interesting that trent brown who everyone has been claiming to want was a like a 7th rounder, and didn't know xilo the guard for us was really a 2nd rounder. I believe the o line would be much improved with 1st rounder reiff and a guard not named Michael Jordan plus with our new o line coach Pollack teaching correct techniques. 

Furthermore I would take sewell on our team but i just feel like he's going to need some development since he is young and untested and he's not a flawless prospect. I just hope if they go that route they pick the right wide receiver that can help us score a lot,because we need to be a top scoring offense in order to get into the playoffs and win at least one playoff game or two. Our defense will not be elite I can guarantee that.