(04-09-2021, 07:27 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I like a wide range of receivers that is for sure but they is because a wide range of receivers can succeed in the NFL.

Think about when we had Chad, TJ and Henry. Three different play styles and builds and route trees and all 3 added a demention to the offense. Variety in your WR Corp and getting the most out of each creates tons of issues for the defense. 

I get what you are saying but not all receivers turn out any good like they did in college. I dont like all them receivers. ones I would take a chance on is wallace, dynami brown in the 2nd. I dont even like the other guy from Lsu that much,he got injured during that good season. There's a couple in the 3rd Marquez stephenson and a couple others I have a hard time with names. But are they going to be good as chase? I dont think so. Chase is like a faster anquan boldin coming out who's been tested by top corners,and has been under the bright lights of a national championship.  

I also look at what these players look like and their personality, I try to see what their fans say about them in the comments. 

Edit- ihrmir smith looks good, seth Williams could be a steal,tomorrian Terry is a guy I'd take a chance on if we double dipped. But for 1 if we are taking Sewell , will the bengals actually pick the right guy/guys who can make us good. Or will they pick the wrong guys and our offense isn't that good to win now. Then we'd have to wait another 365 days to try to upgrade receiver again.

And people will come at me saying the same about o line ,but getting rid of turner was the biggest move. We added reiff and the guard that helped us out last year,adenji showed some things also last year. Plus its deep on o line talent through the 2nd and 3rd round. This is where my logic comes from.

(04-09-2021, 05:40 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The problem whenever people bring this up is that they look at the average and see what they perceive to be a minuscule difference...but that time is an average.

In reality it means that the best lines offered the following times on passes:

Team A:
3 seconds
2 seconds
3 seconds
5 seconds
3 seconds

While the bad line offered these times:

Team B for Bengals:
2 seconds
4 seconds
2 seconds
3 seconds
2 seconds

---------

The average time difference here would be 0.6 seconds...but what if we say those 2 second times were all sacks or blown up plays? Team A only had one of those, while team B had 3 of them. What if the 5 second time was a big play down field? Team A had one, while team B couldn't get the time needed.

-----------------------------

To your second bolded point, that's exactly the thing though. We don't need a WR1. We need to fill in the back end. We also need a speed guy who can take the top off, but it doesn't have to be a 1000 yard guy. We already have 2 guys capable of producing 1000 yards. We just need speed. A Chris Henry type of player.


How did our time to throw stat rank? If we had less time to throw than most teams, wouldn't that have a major impact on our average separation?

Less time to throw = less time to run = less separation.

It is an average, but it's an average taken over hundreds of snaps, not just 5.  And again, the point remains, no QB is consistently getting 4 seconds to just stand back there and survey the field.  

For this discussion, we also must include pressure % and sack % since a QB getting the ball out quick can drop his average time to throw and make the OL look better or worse as a result.  Burrow was tied for 26th in Time to Throw, was 13th in Pressure %, and 10th in Sack %. None of those is good, however, none represent the "worst OL in the NFL" narrative that gets tossed around these boards, either.  However, compare those rankings to the fact that he had the 5th worst expected completion percentage in the league and threw the 3rd highest percentage of passes to targets with a defender within 1 yard of them, it highlights just how bad that WR corps was.  

More time to throw doesn't necessarily mean more separation for the receiver.  The reason for this is simple.  You have a CB who runs 4.5 in the 40 covering a WR who runs 4.45.  If the WR gets separation on his initial break from the CB, he hypothetically will continue to accelerate away and in that case create more separation if the OL can give the QB an extra tenth or two to hold the ball and create an easier throw.  Problem is, the inverse is also true.  If a WR that runs 4.55 gets the same separation on the same route against the same CB, the CB will run him down and close the distance the longer the QB holds the ball.  Our WR corps is painfully slow by NFL standards, which means a lot more of the latter than the former.

(04-10-2021, 01:19 AM)BobJohnson55 Wrote: I get what you are saying but not all receivers turn out any good like they did in college. I dont like all them receivers. ones I would take a chance on is wallace, dynami brown in the 2nd. I dont even like the other guy from Lsu that much,he got injured during that good season. There's a couple in the 3rd Marquez stephenson and a couple others I have a hard time with names. But are they going to be good as chase? I dont think so. Chase is like a faster anquan boldin coming out who's been tested by top corners,and has been under the bright lights of a national championship.  

I also look at what these players look like and their personality, I try to see what their fans say about them in the comments. 

Edit- ihrmir smith looks good, seth Williams could be a steal,tomorrian Terry is a guy I'd take a chance on if we double dipped. But for 1 if we are taking Sewell , will the bengals actually pick the right guy/guys who can make us good. Or will they pick the wrong guys and our offense isn't that good to win now. Then we'd have to wait another 365 days to try to upgrade receiver again.

And people will come at me saying the same about o line ,but getting rid of turner was the biggest move. We added reiff and the guard that helped us out last year,adenji showed some things also last year. Plus its deep on o line talent through the 2nd and 3rd round. This is where my logic comes from.

It is all about how you view the prospects.

Again, there isn't a bad choice among the three, but every time I look at the potential round 2 WR's vs the round 2 OL... I just go blah at the OL names.

If Vera Tucker was there, or Carman, or Cosmi, then you are alright.

But we will be looking at options like:

Teven Jenkins - who isn't a good fit for out scheme and may not be a good fit for anyone based on the offense he played in.

Walker Little - Played 1 game in 2019 before getting injured then opted out. 2 years, no football... that is a hard pass.

Dillon Radunz - I like this kid, but it is a gamble taking a guy from North Dakota State in round 2 and hoping he holds up against AFCN D lines.

Alex Leatherwood - This guy hurt his draft stock this season. He didn't play with an attitude that you want in an OL and he doesn't finish blocks. There is just something about the lack of attitude and effort, makes me think of Bobby Hart. Maybe he turns out great, but I'm not a fan.

Liam Eichenberg - Not athletic and struggles with speed rushers. Also, a reach at 38. Most reports on him are that he is solid and steady and technically sound, but he is playing at his ceiling.

All of the above are LT's as well. So you draft them at 38 and immediately are playing the shuffle game on the Oline, which is why most people are against Sewell.

The IOL guys in round 2 would be:

Wyatt Davis - Coming off an injury. We don't have much luck with drafting injured players.

Kendrick Green - A converted DL, who is a reach at 38

Trey Smith - an imposing G who is projected round 3.

Quinn Meinerz - love this kid, but again, 38 is too soon. Round 3, love it.


There is a drop off in talent from round 1 to round 2 at every position group.. it's how the draft goes. 

I just look at the team and think what position group can you handle a slighted flawed guy out there? Do you want a guy that is flawed protecting your franchise or a guy that is slightly flawed as your #3 WR?

That is why I've been big on Sewell. The flaws on Toney, or Dyami Brown, or Marshall, or either Moore is easier to hide and less damaging. Clean pocket and no one open? Throw it away. Guys open, no pocket - sacked.

Tampa Bay Buccaneers
LT - Donovan Smith (2nd, 34th)
LG - Ali Marpet (2nd, 61st)
C - Ryan Jensen (6th. 203rd)
RG - Alex Cappa (3rd, 94th)
RT - Tristin Wirfs (1st, 13th)
WR1 - Mike Evans (1st, 7th)
WR2 - Chris Godwin (3rd, 84th)

New Orleans Saints
LT - Terron Armstead (3rd, 75th)
LG - Andrus Peat (1st, 13th)
C - Erik McCoy (2nd, 48th)
RG - Cesar Ruiz (1st, 24th)
RT - Ryan Ramcyzk (1st, 32nd)
WR1 - Michael Thomas (2nd, 47th)
WR2 - Emmanuel Sanders (3rd, 82nd)/ Tre'Quan Smith (3rd, 91st)

Carolina Panthers
LT -  Russell Okung (1st, 6th)
LG - Chris Reed (UDFA)
C - Matt Paradis (6th, 207th)
RG - John Miller (3rd, 81st)
RT - Taylor Moton (2nd, 64th)
WR1 - Robbie Anderson (UDFA)
WR2 - Curtis Samuel (2nd, 40th)/ DJ Moore (1st, 24th)

Atlanta Falcons
LT - Jake Matthews (1st, 6th)
LG - James Carpenter (1st, 25th)
C - Alex Mack (1st, 21st)
RG - Chris Lindstrom (1st, 14th)
RT - Kaleb McGary (1st, 31st)
WR1 - Julio Jones (1st, 6th)
WR2 - Calvin Ridley (1st, 26th)

Kansas City Chiefs
LT - Eric Fisher (1st, 1st)
LG - Kelechi Osemele (2nd, 60th) Torn tendon --> Nick Allegretti (7th, 216th) --> Stefan Wisniewski (2md, 48th)
C - Austin Reiter (7th, 222nd)
RG - Andrew Wylie (UDFA)
RT - Mitchell Schwartz (2nd, 37th) --> Mike Remmers (UDFA)
WR1 - Tyreek Hill (5th, 165th)
WR2 - Demarcus Robinson (4th, 126th), Sammy Watkins (1st, 4th)

Las Vegas Raiders
LT - Kolton Miller (1st, 15th)
LG - Denzelle Good (7th, 255th)
C - Rodney Hudson (2nd, 55th)
RG - Gabe Jackson (3rd, 81st)
RT - Trent Brown (7th, 244th) various Covid shutdowns --> Sam Young (6th, 179th)
WR1 - Nelson Agholor (1st, 20th)
WR2 - Henry Ruggs III (1st, 12th), Hunter Renfrow (5th, 149th)

Los Angeles Chargers
LT - Sam Tevi (6th, 190th)
LG - Forrest Lamp (2nd, 38th)
C - Dan Feeney (3rd, 71st)
RG - Trai Turner (3rd, 92nd)
RT - Bryan Bulaga (1st, 23rd), Trey Pipkins (3rd, 91st)
WR1 - Keenan Allen (3rd, 76th)
WR2 - Mike Williams (1st, 7th), Jalen Guyton (UDFA)

Denver Broncos
LT - Garret Bolles (1st, 20th)
LG - Dalton Risner (2nd 41st)
C - Lloyd Cushenberry III (3rd, 83rd)
RG - Graham Glasgow (3rd, 95th)
RT - Elijah Wilkinson (UDFA), Demar Dotson (UDFA)

Pittsburgh Steelers
LT - Allejandro Villanueva (UDFA)
LG - Matt Feiler (UDFA)
C - Maurkice Pouncey (1st, 18th)
RG - David DeCastro (1st, 24th)
RT - Chukwuma Okorafor (3rd, 92nd)
WR1 - Juju Smith-Schuster (2nd, 62nd)
WR2 -Diontae Johnson (3rd, 66th), Chase Claypool (2nd, 49th)

Baltimore Ravens
LT - Ronnie Stanley (1st, 6th)
LG - Bradley Bozeman (6th, 215th)
C - Matt Skura (UDFA), Patrick Mekari (UDFA)
RG - Tyre Philips (3rd, 106th), Ben Powers (4th, 123rd)
RT - Orlando Brown III (3rd, 83rd), DJ Fluker (1st, 11th)
WR1 - Miles Boykin (3rd, 93rd)
WR2 - Marquise Brown (1st, 25th), Willie Snead (UDFA)

Cleveland Browns
LT -  Jedrick Wills Jr (1st, 10th)
LG - Joel Bitonio (2nd, 35th)
C - JC Tretter (4th, 122nd)
RG - Wyatt Teller (5th, 166th), Chris Hubbard (UDFA)
RT - Jack Conklin (1st, 8th)
WR1 - Odell Beckham Jr. (1st, 12th)
WR2 - Jarvis Landry (2nd, 63rd), Rashard Higgins (5th, 172nd)

Cincinnati Bengals
LT - Jonah Williams (1st, 11th), Hakeem Adeniji (6th, 180th)
LG - Michael Jordan (4th, 136th), Quinton Spain (UDFA)
C - Trey Hopkins (UDFA)
RG - Xavier Su'a-Filo (2nd, 33rd), Alex Redmond (UDFA)
RT - Bobby Hart (7th, 226th), Fred Johnson (UDFA)
WR1 - AJ Green (1st, 4th)
WR2 - Tyler Boyd (2nd, 55th), Tee Higgins (2nd, 33rd)

Green Bay Packers
LT - David Bakhtiari (4th, 109th), Ricky Wagner (5th, 168th)
LG - Elgton Jenkins (2nd, 44th)
C - Corey Linsley (5th, 161st)
RG - Lucas Patrick (UDFA)
RT - Billy Turner (3rd, 67th)
WR1 - Davante Adams (2nd, 53rd)
WR2 - Maqruez Valdes-Scantling (5th, 174th), Allen Lazard (UDFA)

Chicago Bears
LT - Charles Leno Jr. (7th, 246th)
LG - James Daniels (2nd, 39th)
C - Cody Whitehair (2nd, 56th)
RG - Germaine Ifedi (1st, 31st), Rashaad Coward (UDFA)
RT - Bobbie Massie (4th, 112th)
WR1 - Allen Robinson (2nd, 61st)
WR2 - Darnell Mooney (5th, 173rd), Anthony Miller (2nd, 51st)

Minnesota Vikings
LT -  Riley Reiff (1st, 23rd)
LG - Dakota Dozier (4th, 137th)
C - Garrett Bradbury (1st, 18th)
RG - Ezra Cleveland (2nd, 58th)
RT - Brian O'Neill (2nd, 62nd)
WR1 - Justin Jefferson (1st, 22nd)
WR2 - Adam Thielen (UDFA)

Detroit Lions
LT - Taylor Decker (1st, 16th)
LG - Jonah Jackson (3rd, 75th)
C - Frank Ragnow (1st. 20th)
RG - Oday Aboushi (5th, 141st)
RT - Halapoulivaati Vaitai (5th, 164th), Tyrell Crosby (5th, 153rd)
WR1 Kenny Golladay (3rd, 96th)
WR2 Marvin Jones (5th, 166th), Danny Amendola (UDFA)

Seattle Seahawks
LT - Duane Brown (1st, 26th)
LG - Mike Iupati (1st, 17th), Jordan Simmons (UDFA)
C - Ethan Pocic (2nd, 58th)
RG - Damien Lewis (3rd, 69th)
RT - Brandon Shell (5th, 158th), Cedric Ogbuehi (1st, 21st)
WR1 - Tyler Lockett (3rd, 69th)
WR2 - DK Metcalf (2nd, 64th), David Moore (7th, 226th)

Los Angeles Rams
LT - Andrew Whitworth (2nd, 55th), Joseph Noteboom (3rd, 89th)
LG - David Edwards (5th, 169th)
C - Austin Blythe (7th, 248th)
RG - Austin Corbett (2nd, 33rd)
RT - Rob Havenstein (2nd, 57th)
WR1 - Cooper Kupp (3rd, 69th)
WR2 - Robert Woods (2nd, 41st), Josh Reynolds (4th, 117th)

Arizona Cardinals
LT -  DJ Humphries (1st, 24th)
LG - Justin Pugh (1st, 19th)
C - Mason Cole (3rd, 97th)
RG - JR Sweezy (7th, 225th), Justin Murray (UDFA)
RT - Kelvin Beachum (7th, 248th)
WR1 - DeAndre Hopkins (1st, 27th)
WR2 - Christian Kirk (2nd, 47th), Larry Fitzgerald (1st, 3rd)

San Fransisco 49ers
LT - Trent Williams (1st, 4th)
LG - Laken Tomlinson (1st, 28th)
C - Ben Garland (UDFA)
RG - Daniel Brunskill (UDFA)
RT - Mike McGlinchey (1st, 9th)
WR1 - Brandon Aiyuk (1st, 25th)
WR2 - Richie James (7th, 240th), Kendrick Bourne (UDFA)

Tennessee Titans (1,2,3,4,5,6 my OCD feels great)
LT - Taylor Lewan (1st, 11th), David Quessenberry (6th, 176th), Ty Sambrailo (2nd, 59th)
LG - Rodger Saffold (2nd, 33rd)
C - Ben Jones (4th, 99th)
RG - Nate Davis (3rd, 82nd)
RT - Dennis Kelly (5th, 153rd)
WR1 - AJ Brown (2nd, 51st)
WR2 - Corey Davis (1st, 5th), Adam Humphries (UDFA)

Indianapolis Colts
LT - Anthony Castonzo (1st, 22nd), Le'Raven (3rd, 82nd)
LG - Quenton Nelson (1st, 6th)
C - Ryan Kelly (1st, 18th)
RG - Mark Glowinski (4th, 134th)
RT - Braden Smith (2nd, 37th)
WR1 - TY Hilton (3rd, 92nd)
WR2 - Zach Pascal (UDFA), Michael Pittman Jr. (2nd, 34th_

Houston Texans
LT -  Laremy Tunsil (1st, 13th)
LG - Max Scharping (2nd, 55th), Senio Kelemete (5th, 151st)
C - Nick Martin (2nd, 50th)
RG - Zach Fulton (6th, 193rd)
RT - Tytus Howard (1st, 23rd)
WR1 Brandin Cooks (1st, 20th)
WR2 Will Fuller (1st, 21st), Randall Cobb (2nd, 64th)

Jacksonville Jaguars
LT - Cam Robinson (2nd, 34th)
LG - Andrew Norwell (UDFA)
C - Brandon Linder (3rd, 93rd), Tyler Shatley (UDFA)
RG - AJ Cann (3rd, 67th)
RT - Jawaan Taylor (2nd, 35th)
WR1 - DJ Chark (2nd, 61st)
WR2 - Laviska Shenault Jr (2nd, 42nd), Kellan Cole (UDFA)

Washington Redskins
LT - Geron Christian (3rd, 74th), Cornelius Lucas (UDFA)
LG - Wes Schweitzer (6th 195th)
C - Chase Roullier (6th, 199th)
RG - Brandon Scherff (1st, 5th)
RT - Morgan Moses (3rd, 66th)
WR1 - Terry McLaurin (3rd, 76th),
WR2 - Cam Sims (UDFA), Isaiah Wright (UDFA)

New York Giants
LT - Andrew Thomas (1st, 4th), Nate Solder (1st, 17th) <-- opted out)
LG - Shane Lemieux (5th, 150th), Will Hernandez (2nd, 34th)
C - Nick Gates (UDFA)
RG - Kevin Zeitler (1st, 27th)
RT - Cameron Fleming (4th, 140th)
WR1 - Sterling Shepard (2nd, 40th)
WR2 Darius Slayton (5th, 171st), Golden Tate (2nd, 60th)

Dallas Cowboys
LT -  Tyron Smith (1st, 9th), Brandon Knight (UDFA)
LG - Connor Williams (2nd, 50th)
C - Joe Looney (4th, 117th), Tyler Biadasz (4th, 146th)
RG - Zack Martin (1st, 16th)
RT - La'El Collins (UDFA), Terence Steele (UDFA), Cameron Erving (1st, 19th)
WR1 - Amari Cooper (1st, 4th)
WR2 - CeeDee Lamb (1st, 17th), Michael Gallup (3rd, 81st)

Philadelphia Eagles
LT - Andre Dillard (1st, 22nd), Jason Peters (UDFA), Jordan Mailata (7th, 233rd)
LG - Isaac Seumalo (3rd, 79th), Matt Pryor (6th, 206th)
C - Jason Kelce (6th, 191st)
RG - Brandon Brooks (3rd, 76th), Nate Herbig (UDFA)
RT - Lane Johnson (1st, 4th), Jack Driscoll (4th, 145th)
WR1 Greg Ward (UDFA)
WR2 Travis Fulgham (6th, 184th), Jalen Reagor (1st, 21st)

Buffalo Bills
LT - Dion Dawkins (2nd, 63rd)
LG - Cody Ford (2nd, 38th), Ike Boettger (UDFA)
C - Mitch Morse (2nd, 49th)
RG - John Feliciano (4th, 128th), Brian Winters (3rd, 72nd)
RT - Daryl Williams (4th, 102nd)
WR1 - Stefon Diggs (5th, 146th)
WR2 Cole Beasley (UDFA), Gabriel Davis (4th, 128th)

Miami Dolphins
LT - Austin Jackson (1st, 18th)
LG - Ereck Flowers (1st, 9th)
C - Ted Karras (6th, 221st)
RG - Solomon Kindley (4th, 111st)
RT - Robert Hunt (2nd, 39th), Jesse Davis (UDFA)
WR1 - DeVante Parker (1st, 14th)
WR2 - Preston Williams (UDFA), Jakeem Grant (6th, 186th)

New England Patriots
LT -  Isaiah Wynn (1st, 23rd), Justin Herron (6th, 195th)
LG - Joe Thuney (3rd, 78th)
C - David Andrews (UDFA)
RG - Shaq Mason (4th, 131st), Michael Onwenu (6th, 182nd) <-- started 16 games due to injuries
RT - Jermaine Eluemunor (5th, 159th)
WR1 - Julian Edelman (7th, 232nd), Damiere Byrd (UDFA)
WR2 - N'Keal Harry (1st, 32nd), Jakobi Meyers (UDFA)

New York Jets
LT - Mekhi Becton (1st, 11th), Chuma Edoga (3rd, 92nd)
LG - Alex Lewis (4th, 130th), Pat Elflein (3rd, 70th)
C - Connor McGovern (5th, 144th)
RG - Greg Van Roten (UDFA), Josh Andrews (UDFA)
RT - George Fant (UDFA)
WR1 - Denzel Mims (2nd, 59th), Breshad Perriman (1st, 26th)
WR2 - Jamison Crowder (4th, 105th), Braxton Berrios (6th, 210th)

There you go. Don't know why I looked all that up, but I've always liked making stupid info sheets like this.

Tried to compile the offensive linemen that were intended going into the season as best I could tell. If someone missed an entire season I may not have caught them. Several guys only played a few games before they got injured. Did less of that research on the WR just posted the guys that played the most unless I knew a WR was supposed to be a starter.

If there's a bunch of lineman listed it means there were a lot of injuries so a lot of different guys started games.

(04-10-2021, 02:05 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: It is all about how you view the prospects.

Again, there isn't a bad choice among the three, but every time I look at the potential round 2 WR's vs the round 2 OL... I just go blah at the OL names.

If Vera Tucker was there, or Carman, or Cosmi, then you are alright.

But we will be looking at options like:

Teven Jenkins - who isn't a good fit for out scheme and may not be a good fit for anyone based on the offense he played in.

Walker Little - Played 1 game in 2019 before getting injured then opted out. 2 years, no football... that is a hard pass.

Dillon Radunz - I like this kid, but it is a gamble taking a guy from North Dakota State in round 2 and hoping he holds up against AFCN D lines.

Alex Leatherwood - This guy hurt his draft stock this season. He didn't play with an attitude that you want in an OL and he doesn't finish blocks. There is just something about the lack of attitude and effort, makes me think of Bobby Hart. Maybe he turns out great, but I'm not a fan.

Liam Eichenberg - Not athletic and struggles with speed rushers. Also, a reach at 38. Most reports on him are that he is solid and steady and technically sound, but he is playing at his ceiling.

All of the above are LT's as well. So you draft them at 38 and immediately are playing the shuffle game on the Oline, which is why most people are against Sewell.

The IOL guys in round 2 would be:

Wyatt Davis - Coming off an injury. We don't have much luck with drafting injured players.

Kendrick Green - A converted DL, who is a reach at 38

Trey Smith - an imposing G who is projected round 3.

Quinn Meinerz - love this kid, but again, 38 is too soon. Round 3, love it.


There is a drop off in talent from round 1 to round 2 at every position group.. it's how the draft goes. 

I just look at the team and think what position group can you handle a slighted flawed guy out there? Do you want a guy that is flawed protecting your franchise or a guy that is slightly flawed as your #3 WR?

That is why I've been big on Sewell. The flaws on Toney, or Dyami Brown, or Marshall, or either Moore is easier to hide and less damaging. Clean pocket and no one open? Throw it away. Guys open, no pocket - sacked.

It's also how you view the guys we already got. I dont consider tee higgins as #1,hes not fast hes a short pass receiver mostly from what I seen. So we have 2 #2s on our team in my eyes. O line we have two tackles penciled in. 

I also would rather shuffle the o line with a 2nd or 3rd round pick then a first. Because you are doing the exact same thing. We want to have a highly potent offense in order to win games this year. And the nfl favors offense now anyways. 

Somewhere among the pages of this thread there is opinions from Munoz, Jeff Saturday and Willie Anderson about drafting Sewell. Everyone said, of course the O-line guys want O-line.

Well, wanted to toss this out here:

Former Bengal WR saying take Sewell. If not Sewell, Pitts. Smart man.

"Protect ? Your ? Quarterback ?" - @Hawk#Bengals #NFLDraft #TeamSewell pic.twitter.com/5AQ8jfMhcr

— Future MVP Joe Burrow (@FauxJeaux) April 9, 2021

(04-10-2021, 02:27 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Somewhere among the pages of this thread there is opinions from Munoz, Jeff Saturday and Willie Anderson about drafting Sewell. Everyone said, of course the O-line guys want O-line.

Well, wanted to toss this out here:

Former Bengal WR saying take Sewell. If not Sewell, Pitts. Smart man.

"Protect ? Your ? Quarterback ?" - @Hawk#Bengals #NFLDraft #TeamSewell pic.twitter.com/5AQ8jfMhcr

— Future MVP Joe Burrow (@FauxJeaux) April 9, 2021

I mean, we can find guys on either side. Here’s Jim Mora Jr saying we should take Chase...

https://youtu.be/QhoU6h29Qjo

(04-10-2021, 02:55 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I mean, we can find guys on either side. Here’s Jim Mora Jr saying we should take Chase...

https://youtu.be/QhoU6h29Qjo

Jim Mora also said the Jets should stay with Darnold and take Sewell at 2 calling him a future Hall of Famer...

"Mora sung the praises of Oregon's Penei Sewell, claiming New York would be getting a future Hall of Famer if they picked the tackle at No. 2."

https://www.si.com/nfl/jets/news/former-head-coach-jim-mora-new-york-jets-need-to-address-offensive-line-nfl-draft-sewell-vera-tucker

Geoff Hobson is on team Sewell:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZfv8WLe2_M (2:38 mark)

"You guys know when this team was at it's best. It was when Levi was at left and Willie was at right. It's when Whitworth was at left and Andre was at right."

Tbh, there's way more people in the media that are on team Sewell. I've only seen one guy (just now) saying to pick Chase. There's been countless guys saying we should pick Sewell.

(04-10-2021, 03:10 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Geoff Hobson is on team Sewell:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZfv8WLe2_M (2:38 mark)

"You guys know when this team was at it's best. It was when Levi was at left and Willie was at right. It's when Whitworth was at left and Andre was at right."

Tbh, there's way more people in the media that are on team Sewell. I've only seen one guy (just now) saying to pick Chase. There's been countless guys saying we should pick Sewell.

Which means knowing the Bengals... we will pick Chase.

Then, Williams and XSF will get hurt in pre-season or week 1 and by week 4 all the "Team Chase" people will be screaming about how bad the line is when Michael Jordan is out there at G, and Fred Johnson is playing T. 

Meanwhile our 2nd round pick will be an Edge rusher because Tobin has "starter grades on 2nd and 3rd round OL" and the guy we took in 3, won't be ready to go. 

And then at season ends the entire board will spend a month or two saying OL is horrible and must be the focus, and then as the draft nears, half the board will fall in love with some CB or Edge, or another WR or TE or something, and talk about the depth of the OL class. 

Even the year we took Jonah, most people on the board where actually super excited that we were going to draft Bush for our LB corp. At some point, you just have to commit to fixing it, and really commit to it. Take the best guy on the line and don't look back, then double dip on the C from Whitewater in 3.

(04-10-2021, 01:50 AM)Whatever Wrote: It is an average, but it's an average taken over hundreds of snaps, not just 5.  And again, the point remains, no QB is consistently getting 4 seconds to just stand back there and survey the field.  

For this discussion, we also must include pressure % and sack % since a QB getting the ball out quick can drop his average time to throw and make the OL look better or worse as a result.  Burrow was tied for 26th in Time to Throw, was 13th in Pressure %, and 10th in Sack %. None of those is good, however, none represent the "worst OL in the NFL" narrative that gets tossed around these boards, either.  However, compare those rankings to the fact that he had the 5th worst expected completion percentage in the league and threw the 3rd highest percentage of passes to targets with a defender within 1 yard of them, it highlights just how bad that WR corps was.  

More time to throw doesn't necessarily mean more separation for the receiver.  The reason for this is simple.  You have a CB who runs 4.5 in the 40 covering a WR who runs 4.45.  If the WR gets separation on his initial break from the CB, he hypothetically will continue to accelerate away and in that case create more separation if the OL can give the QB an extra tenth or two to hold the ball and create an easier throw.  Problem is, the inverse is also true.  If a WR that runs 4.55 gets the same separation on the same route against the same CB, the CB will run him down and close the distance the longer the QB holds the ball.  Our WR corps is painfully slow by NFL standards, which means a lot more of the latter than the former.

I don't see how that changes anything. In fact it makes it worse, as these types of impactful snaps (negative and positive) pile up over the course of hundreds of snaps.

To the rest, the time to throw is really what you want to focus on, because the other two stats can be majorly influenced by the offense making short throws to offset pressure. Which is something that will ALSO have a major impact on how much separation our receivers get on average.

26th in time to throw sounds about right. Our line was awful. "It wasn't the worst" isn't what you really want to hang your hat on, is it? Throw Sewell at RT, bump Reiff inside, draft a speed guy in round 2 or 3, and we should see MAJOR improvement.

You are right that time to throw doesn't necessarily = separation, but you want to know what it does mean? Burrow having more time to scan his receivers to see who got the most separation. If he's having to target the first guy he sees because he has no time, that guy is more likely to be covered...which will drag down that separation stat. If he can scan his targets more often, the stat improves. Simple.

(04-10-2021, 03:20 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Which means knowing the Bengals... we will pick Chase.

Then, Williams and XSF will get hurt in pre-season or week 1 and by week 4 all the "Team Chase" people will be screaming about how bad the line is when Michael Jordan is out there at G, and Fred Johnson is playing T. 

Meanwhile our 2nd round pick will be an Edge rusher because Tobin has "starter grades on 2nd and 3rd round OL" and the guy we took in 3, won't be ready to go. 

And then at season ends the entire board will spend a month or two saying OL is horrible and must be the focus, and then as the draft nears, half the board will fall in love with some CB or Edge, or another WR or TE or something, and talk about the depth of the OL class. 

Even the year we took Jonah, most people on the board where actually super excited that we were going to draft Bush for our LB corp. At some point, you just have to commit to fixing it, and really commit to it. Take the best guy on the line and don't look back, then double dip on the C from Whitewater in 3.

(04-10-2021, 03:10 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Geoff Hobson is on team Sewell:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZfv8WLe2_M (2:38 mark)

"You guys know when this team was at it's best. It was when Levi was at left and Willie was at right. It's when Whitworth was at left and Andre was at right."

Tbh, there's way more people in the media that are on team Sewell. I've only seen one guy (just now) saying to pick Chase. There's been countless guys saying we should pick Sewell.

But will we have enough cap space to sign Sewell according to Hobson?

(04-10-2021, 03:35 PM)Whatever Wrote: But will we have enough cap space to sign Sewell according to Hobson?

Yes, but only after we cut several guys and roll-over the needed cap space.

(04-10-2021, 03:35 PM)Whatever Wrote: But will we have enough cap space to sign Sewell according to Hobson?

Why wouldn't we?

(04-10-2021, 03:20 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Which means knowing the Bengals... we will pick Chase.

Then, Williams and XSF will get hurt in pre-season or week 1 and by week 4 all the "Team Chase" people will be screaming about how bad the line is when Michael Jordan is out there at G, and Fred Johnson is playing T. 

Meanwhile our 2nd round pick will be an Edge rusher because Tobin has "starter grades on 2nd and 3rd round OL" and the guy we took in 3, won't be ready to go. 

And then at season ends the entire board will spend a month or two saying OL is horrible and must be the focus, and then as the draft nears, half the board will fall in love with some CB or Edge, or another WR or TE or something, and talk about the depth of the OL class. 

Even the year we took Jonah, most people on the board where actually super excited that we were going to draft Bush for our LB corp. At some point, you just have to commit to fixing it, and really commit to it. Take the best guy on the line and don't look back, then double dip on the C from Whitewater in 3.

So your saying if the Bengals choose Sewell then.Tobin is 
Brillant but if the Bengals draft Chase then he doesnt care
About the oline?
Drafting Sewell alone isnt going.to.fix this oline.
Coaching and health you have to.factor in. 

All these Sewell fans act like he is only olineman.in this 
Draft that can step in and play right away. 

Why do.you think.the Bengals will pick a edge rusher 
Over a olineman in RD 2?

(04-10-2021, 03:46 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Why wouldn't we?

(04-10-2021, 03:48 PM)impactplaya Wrote: So your saying if the Bengals choose Sewell then.Tobin is 
Brillant but if the Bengals draft Chase then he doesnt care
About the oline?

Drafting Sewell alone isnt going.to.fix this oline.
Coaching and health you have to.factor in. 

All these Sewell fans act like he is only olineman.in this 
Draft that can step in and play right away. 

Why do.you think.the Bengals will pick a edge rusher 
Over a olineman in RD 2?

1) If Tobin views WR as a bigger issue then OL, that speaks volume about his level of care.

2) You are right, drafting Sewell alone won't fix the line. Hence why I've been saying, Sewell /Toney, Marhsall Jr, Brown/ Meinez for the first 3 rounds. That actually helps this year as well as builds a plan for the future. 

3) Sewell and Slater are on their own level in this class, same way people act like it's Chase then everyone else. After the Championship game this place was a boner factory for Smith, and Waddle might actually be better then both. There is recent history of the Bengals taking a 2nd round WR and getting instant production. See Tee Higgins, and see Tyler Boyd.

4) As to why I think we will go edge in two if we take Chase. Tobin's own words. He has a "starter grade on guys in the 2nd and 3rd", add that to the if you pass on Sewell you aren't viewing the OL as your biggest weakness. Now, with those two given factors, add in the run at the end of 1 and start of 2 that will happen on Oline guys and you'll see some defenders fall that shouldn't. If they have in Tobin's own words, guys in three that they see as a starter, they will pounce on an edge or IDL that falls to 38. 

Also, the reason I believe there will be an Oline run, look at picks 23 to 37 and you'll see a lot of teams that will be looking for OL upgrades. Jax will certainly address their line after taking Lawrence at 1, Jets, Dolphins, Eagles all will be looking OL, Packers need to replace what they lost on the line, Chiefs, Steelers need a new LT, there is just going to be a big time run on the line in that range. And we'll be left at 38 with a picked over group.

(04-10-2021, 03:07 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Jim Mora also said the Jets should stay with Darnold and take Sewell at 2 calling him a future Hall of Famer...

"Mora sung the praises of Oregon's Penei Sewell, claiming New York would be getting a future Hall of Famer if they picked the tackle at No. 2."

https://www.si.com/nfl/jets/news/former-head-coach-jim-mora-new-york-jets-need-to-address-offensive-line-nfl-draft-sewell-vera-tucker

Literally nobody is questioning how good Sewell is. But if Mora said he’d take Chase (for the Bengals) even after singing Sewell’s praises that much what does that tell you?