(04-15-2021, 02:53 PM)mas_fuerte Wrote: I like Tim, but this is a pretty obviously exaggerated take. Picking OL at #5 overall isn't the only way to protect Burrow.

If you go back and look at all the threads after Burrow got hurt.. many on the board had the same view as Tim in general that fixing the line is using our #1 pick to do it. 

People seeing the writing on the wall after they ignored the line last offseason that Burrow won't last the season and those same deniers calling them out on the dramatics (just to melt down when Burrow went down).

Groundhogs day.

Chase however will be a great asset to whoever is qb in 3 more years.

I think Chase is the pick, I think fans are in for a surprise in the 2nd round when they don't go Oline (due to the run on Oline prospects at the end of round 1 and top of round 2 (from the teams who know to protect their new QB that they draft in the top 4) leaving some good dline help which is still a need and not a deep draft for defensive ends and tackles which means 2nd round is the best time to grab one that they have a high grade on.

(04-15-2021, 04:48 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: The biggest point in Tim's statement was this simple truth:

If they are committed to winning and the future the pick is OL.

If Taylor is trying to save face and keep his options open after the Bengals fire him, the pick is Chase.

All these former players that watch his team and know this team say take Sewell (Munoz, Lapham, Tim McGee, Willie Anderson, Hawkins)

Then the team Chase side is... people who have no connection to the team or no NFL career

Jim Mora Jr - A coach with one winning NFL season, all seasons in the NFC and probably the only player he knows on the roster is Burrow... so of course he is team Chase.

Tony Pike - Who had 1 season in the NFL with Carolina. Cedric Ogbuehi has a longer career... let that sink in. Tony is a great college QB, and has a ton of insight into the Bearcats and is beloved for his season here, but he is a college guy not a pro guy. It's a different game.

Mitchell Schwartz - A guys tweets him and sets him up with if you believe LT is set (it isn't Jonah is an injury concern) then do you take the pass catcher. He replies if you think it is set then you take the pass catcher.. again a guy who doesn't know the Bengals roster. And if you count his opinion, then count Jeff Saturday's opinion and Dominque Foxworth's opinion that both called it "malpractice" to take Chase over Sewell. Saturday by the way is retired and still heavily involved in the NFLPA because of how smart he is and how respected he is by every player in the league...

lastly for team Chase...

Duke ***** Tobin - The second dumbest man in the Bengals front office, since Mike still has a pulse. This ass clown brought you John Ross and Billy Price. He has shown that he isn't good at this job, we've all hated on him and wanted him gone for years. Now half the board must think the guy is a genius because... team Chase.


McGee is 100% right, if they pick Chase, it's Taylor trying to save face and the team trying to sell tickets. Chase will be a good player, but he isn't the right player for this team's current needs.

Is what it is though. The Bengals will pick him, and maybe after the next 5 or 6 win season we'll learn... doubtful... but maybe.

All solid rebuttals.  But I would be woefully remiss to let this slide without offering you ..... THIS!!

(04-15-2021, 04:25 PM)Yogo Wrote: So.....  Williams and Reiff together rank as a top 10 tackle duo?  I can't find any data that comes even close to consider that.  But yes, up the middle at guard is a bigger problem.  Adding Sewell will help with slotting people into upgrading the middle better.

Williams is ascending player at LT; He will a top 10 LT next season and Rieff has consistently played well during his career. So I have zero problem saying the Bengals will have a top 10 duo at T next season.

(04-15-2021, 04:55 PM)jj22 Wrote: People seeing the writing on the wall after they ignored the line last offseason that Burrow won't last the season and those same deniers calling them out on the dramatics (just to melt down when Burrow went down).

Groundhogs day.

Chase however will be a great asset to whoever is qb in 3 more years.

I think Chase is the pick, I think fans are in for a surprise in the 2nd round when they don't go Oline (due to the run on Oline prospects leaving some good dline help which is still a need and not a deep draft for defensive ends and tackles which means 2nd round is the best time to grab one that they have a high grade on.

Round 2 is going to be DL.

Tobin's comments should tell you that all day.... "He sees value on the line in 2 and 3"


There will be a huge OL run at the end of 1 and start of 2. These picks at 21 and beyond is the issue. Colts need a tackle, Pitt needs multiple OL players, Jets, Jacksonville, Packers, Chiefs, Dolphins, and who knows since the Bucs are loaded, perhaps they steal a guy to develop or just trade out of the pick.

But you can count after Sewell, Slater and Darrisaw go that 6 to 7 more OL players get drafted before we pick at 38. So, now there will be some LB, or Edge rusher or IDL that is graded too high to pass, and bam... we have 2019 draft part 2.

When you get handed a winning ticket (Sewell) you cash it in, you don't pass. Unless you are the Bengals. 

Look at how many picks in round 1 we've spent on OL trying to get it fixed, and anytime we spend a pick that isn't our first choice, or the clear and obvious one, it doesn't pan out. (Price, Ced, we took traded back and passed on DeCastro for Zeitler. Kevin is a nice player, but DeCastro is a monster at G we would all love to have. I still don't believe Jonah was the target in 19, otherwise why would the Steelers spend so much to jump up in front of us. We scrambled, and got a guy who is hurt a lot.) Sewell is viewed by everyone as a can't miss. He may not be a HoF player, but his floor at his absolute worst, he is still the best OL we would have... that means some bad OL doesn't see the field. 

(04-15-2021, 05:08 PM)J24 Wrote: Williams is ascending player at LT; He will a top 10 LT next season and Rieff has consistently played well during his career. So I have zero problem saying the Bengals will have a top 10 duo at T next season.

Either Williams or Rieff is really going to have to step it up if this is to be a top 10 tackle tandem. In the 10 out of 32 games Williams has played he graded out at 70.1 and over the lsat 5 years Rieff has average 69.98 with a high grade in 2018 of 74.1. Neither would be close to a top 10 graded tackle.

(04-15-2021, 04:07 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Sewell can play Guard.

(04-15-2021, 04:09 PM)Burma Wrote: There is no way drafting Sewell doesn't solve the G problem this year. Williams, Rieff, Sewell as OT, worst of the 3 plays G, which would still be better than any G on the roster.

Draft another G in 3 or 4 for when Rieff's 1 year rental is up. 

There are a lot of guys that have inside out potential in this draft that you can get in the second and third. 

If the Bengals were smart they would trade the pick and stock up on multiple positions. 

(04-15-2021, 05:19 PM)J24 Wrote: If the Bengals were smart they would trade the pick and stock up on multiple positions. 

I am team Sewell all the way, but more than that I am team O-line.  If they can slide back to 12-15 range and get a player like Darrisaw/Slater (a bit of a stretch) and picking up an extra 2nd and a 3rd I would be thrilled. 

Just because someone played in the nfl doesn’t mean they are great talent evaluators. Even if they are it seems like all of these guys are acting like the only pick in the draft the Bengals have is pick 5.

The bengals need O line help. That is clear. The bengals also need WR help. This is also clear. The bengals have two of the first 38 picks and should be able to get a player to help in year one at both spots with those two picks.

I would love to see the Bengals really commit to fixing this line that we’ve been complaining about for years. I’d love Sewell. I love a lot of the round 2 OL as well though.

I’d love Chase. I like but don’t love a few 2nd round WR prospects that may or may not make it to 38. IMO the drop off from Sewell to round 2 OL is noticeably less than Chase vs round 2 WR.

If you look at the player pool I think it’s a much safer bet to plan on getting a starting caliber OL in round 2 than an impact WR. Sewell or Chase? Either is a huge help. It could without a doubt be better for the franchise to pick Chase an a very good OL in 2 than Sewell and whatever WR is left in round 2.

People acting like it’s Sewell or the end of the world are going way overboard. I’ll be sitting back enjoying the Bengals getting a great player regardless of which guy they pick (as long as they don’t do something that would actually be devastating like take a 4th round talent or Kicker at 5 or 38).

And if you guys are so worried about what past players think shouldn’t you also worry about what current players think? Like Joe Burrow perhaps? He’s the only person in the world who knows what it’s like to throw to Chase and also what it’s like to play behind this pathetic OL. I’ve seen rumors he wants Chase. If former players that haven’t played in decades or never followed this team’s opinions matter than I’d have to assume the current QB’s opinion matters at least as much right?

(04-15-2021, 05:17 PM)Burma Wrote: Either Williams or Rieff is really going to have to step it up if this is to be a top 10 tackle tandem. In the 10 out of 32 games Williams has played he graded out at 70.1 and over the lsat 5 years Rieff has average 69.98 with a high grade in 2018 of 74.1. Neither would be close to a top 10 graded tackle.

Last three years Rieff has had a 74.1, 71.1, and another 71 grade. He is a good player. Also I fully expect that Williams will have a huge jump in play this season. So again I'm sticking by my comment that we will have a top 10 OT combination this season.

(04-15-2021, 05:08 PM)J24 Wrote: Williams is ascending player at LT; He will a top 10 LT next season and Rieff has consistently played well during his career. So I have zero problem saying the Bengals will have a top 10 duo at T next season.

Uh, Jonah Williams has been healthy to play for about half a season in two years.  Reilly Reiff is a solid, dependable Tackle, but he's also been dinged up and is obviously toward the end of his career.  Not to mention he's on low-budget, one year deal that screams "I just don't want to become irrelevant".

This team cut their starting RT to sign a plug in for one year. They absolutely need to take the Tackle at 5, and address Guard in at least one of the next two rounds.

(04-15-2021, 05:28 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Uh, Jonah Williams has been healthy to play for about half a season in two years.  Reilly Reiff is a solid, dependable Tackle, but he's also been dinged up and is obviously toward the end of his career.  Not to mention he's on low-budget, one year deal that screams "I just don't want to become irrelevant".

This team cut their starting RT to sign a plug in for one year.  They absolutely need to take the Tackle at 5, and address Guard in at least one of the next two rounds.

1.) Williams two injuries were unfortunate but I still believe he will be a top 10 to top 5 caliber LT for the majority of his career. 

2.) Rieff is a solid player and in all honesty that's all you have to be at RT.

Finally the Bengals can draft any of the three of Chase, Pitts, and Sewell and be really happy with whom they drafted. With that being said if the Bengals miss out on Sewell there will be a good prospect to draft at 38 and same can be said if they miss out on Chase.

(04-15-2021, 04:30 PM)bengals1969 Wrote: I think the Bengals should take OL twice in the first three rounds.   They lose Jonah, they screwed, they lose Ratliff, they screwed.  The conservative approach would be to take Sewell, maybe the smart approach, but not what I'd do if Pitts was there.
Based upon dead money the starting line consists of
Hopkins starting at center if healthy
Williams LT
Ratliff RT
Billy Price can't be cut nor traded but only has a dead money hit of $1.6 million.
Filo has dead money of $1 million.
Everybody else on contract could be cut without stacking up a bunch of dead money.
So not only could the Bengals absorb 2 OL's at the top of the draft, they could absorb 3 or 4. from the entire draft.  I doubt they do it, but the payroll say it can be done.  

I agree the Bengals should take OL twice in the first 3 rounds. It is Reiff BTW lol

You also forgot about Spain who I think with a full Offseason could get back to what he was a few years ago which was a 
very good pass blocking Guard. Agree that if Pitts is there I take him. Sounds like we are taking Chase though regardless at
least from what Tobin and Malik Wright are saying. If so Meinerz and Spencer Brown would be great in the next few rounds.

It is deep at OT in this Draft, they could really stock up as you say.

(04-15-2021, 04:06 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well, he is talented. I still think Pitts is the guy that could be like no other type of Receiver. Can play TE, WR and you can move 
him around to find any mismatch you like. 6'6" Receiver/TE that can run a 4.44 forty with great hands that can run crisp routes is 
extremely rare. Something I don't think I have seen before besides maybe Calvin Johnson who was only a WR.

I've said it before but what your describing sounds alot like Darren Waller, great weapon but I don't see where Pitts is so much better than him that hed be looked at as a never before seen type of TE.

On topic, give me Chase and get interior line help in 2-4.

(04-15-2021, 05:46 PM)J24 Wrote: 1.) Williams two injuries were unfortunate but I still believe he will be a top 10 to top 5 caliber LT for the majority of his career. 

I think he can be a very good OT, he just has to be available.  At this point in his career he has played 6 games less than John Ross, the Mr. Glass of WRs. Talentwise it's not even close, but, as of now, you can't rely on him for a full season.

(04-15-2021, 05:46 PM)J24 Wrote: 1.) Williams two injuries were unfortunate but I still believe he will be a top 10 to top 5 caliber LT for the majority of his career. 

2.) Rieff is a solid player and in all honesty that's all you have to be at RT.

Finally the Bengals can draft any of the three of Chase, Pitts, and Sewell and be really happy with whom they drafted. With that being said if the Bengals miss out on Sewell there will be a good prospect to draft at 38 and same can be said if they miss out on Chase.

Sure, if Williams can stay healthy and continue to develop, and Reiff himself can stay healthy;  That helps for THIS year, and this year only.  We need the next franchise Tackle up on deck, hopefully playing Guard to get reps until it's his turn to slide out to Tackle.

(04-15-2021, 05:25 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: Just because someone played in the nfl doesn’t mean they are great talent evaluators. Even if they are it seems like all of these guys are acting like the only pick in the draft the Bengals have is pick 5.

The bengals need O line help. That is clear. The bengals also need WR help. This is also clear. The bengals have two of the first 38 picks and should be able to get a player to help in year one at both spots with those two picks.

I would love to see the Bengals really commit to fixing this line that we’ve been complaining about for years. I’d love Sewell. I love a lot of the round 2 OL as well though.

I’d love Chase. I like but don’t love a few 2nd round WR prospects that may or may not make it to 38. IMO the drop off from Sewell to round 2 OL is noticeably less than Chase vs round 2 WR.

If you look at the player pool I think it’s a much safer bet to plan on getting a starting caliber OL in round 2 than an impact WR. Sewell or Chase? Either is a huge help. It could without a doubt be better for the franchise to pick Chase an a very good OL in 2 than Sewell and whatever WR is left in round 2.

People acting like it’s Sewell or the end of the world are going way overboard. I’ll be sitting back enjoying the Bengals getting a great player regardless of which guy they pick (as long as they don’t do something that would actually be devastating like take a 4th round talent or Kicker at 5 or 38).

And if you guys are so worried about what past players think shouldn’t you also worry about what current players think? Like Joe Burrow perhaps? He’s the only person in the world who knows what it’s like to throw to Chase and also what it’s like to play behind this pathetic OL. I’ve seen rumors he wants Chase. If former players that haven’t played in decades or never followed this team’s opinions matter than I’d have to assume the current QB’s opinion matters at least as much right?

The big issue is the Bengals ability to identify good OL players vs their ability to identify good WRs. They've gotten so much production from round 2, 3, 4, 5, even 7 WRs

Sewell is a can't miss.
Chase is a can't miss.

When given the two with the Bengals history and current roster... that is why the OL side is so freaked out. We take Chase, then take.. Leatherwood or Jenkins or Eichenberg and they end up like Jake Fisher. Just... blah. Or maybe they end up like Spain.. servicable, but really not top tier. 

Versus

Take Sewell, you know he will be at the least, the best OL on the team. Then at 38 you will have one of these guys available. It's draft history, there won't be 10 WRs taken in the top 38. Most ever was 7. So, Chase, Waddle, Smith, Rashod Bateman, Terrace Marshall Jr, Elijah Moore, Rondale Moore, Karadius Toney, Dyami Brown. I don't see a name on that list, that wouldn't come in and be a huge upgrade as the #3 WR. Then you have multiple names in later rounds that will be available, Nico Collins, Armon-Ra St Brown, Josh Palmer, Tylan Wallace, Jaelon Darden, this list goes on. The Bengals have shown the ability over the years to get production out of later round WRs... see Tee Higgins and Tyler Boyd, not to mention Auden Tate has been better then expected for a 7th round pick. They can find WRs in any round. 

(04-15-2021, 06:06 PM)BobJones4980 Wrote: I've said it before but what your describing sounds alot like Darren Waller, great weapon but I don't see where Pitts is so much better than him that hed be looked at as a never before seen type of TE.

On topic, give me Chase and get interior line help in 2-4.

Darren Waller ran a 4.44 forty?

I have heard that comparison and Waller is damn good now, took a few years but he is.

Of course I am down with what you say here, we need interior OL help more than OT help at the moment.

I just like the thought of Sewell mauling at Guard as a rookie if Jonah and Reiff are healthy and playing well on the outside.

Plus if either got hurt Sewell could kick out.

(04-15-2021, 06:07 PM)Burma Wrote: I think he can be a very good OT, he just has to be available.  At this point in his career he has played 6 games less than John Ross, the Mr. Glass of WRs. Talentwise it's not even close, but, as of now, you can't rely on him for a full season.

John Ross had a major injury history in college as well Jonah didn't. Comparing the two is a bit harsh.

(04-15-2021, 01:55 PM)bengals67 Wrote: On Cincy Jungle former Bengals WR Tim McGee says if the Bengals don't pick an o-lineman with their 5th they should draft another QB .

According to Tim, multiple QBs will be needed because Burrow will be in the hospital again because of their pathetic o line.

So obviously true if you have watched their games over the last 2 to 3 years.

Good man Tim.

He might be on to something, but for reasons other than stated. If we drafted one of the top 5 QB's, what would that be worth in trade value to a QB needy team? (Not suggesting it)