(04-15-2021, 11:19 PM)J24 Wrote: Why are you tearing down Jonah? Did the guy beat up Sewell or something?

You just use the word ELITE to freely.  To me thats top 3 maybe 5 at the position in the whole league. for multiple years in a row.

Maybe Pollack can coach Jonah up to get him to
That next level.

My gut on Jonah has always been that he’s soft. Never liked the pick. This team can’t select an offensive lineman to save its life. I’m gonna go with bust on this guy. Was never a fan. But as a bengals fan I hope I’m so wrong

(04-16-2021, 07:56 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He’s only 23 years old. Writing him off is a tad premature, no? If he misses significant time for a 3rd year in a row, then sure, I’d agree it’s time to look for a new “thoroughbred” at LT.

Better to look a year early than a year late. OT does not look to be a strength in next years draft, none (as of now) in the top 10. Take the best of a premier crop now and move on. forewarned, forearmed yada yada

Jonah is an ascending LT. To pull him away from that spot is ludicrous and outright wrong.

Yes he has the potential to be very good to elite. He displayed the upside last year under Jim Turner, wait and see what he can do with Frank Pollack.

(04-16-2021, 09:28 AM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Jonah is an ascending LT. To pull him away from that spot is ludicrous and outright wrong.

Yes he has the potential to be very good to elite. He displayed the upside last year under Jim Turner, wait and see what he can do with Frank Pollack.

Moving him just to move him is not a good idea, however if he loses his position to someone who outperforms him than that is a gain for the team and good, solid team building. 

(04-16-2021, 08:46 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: With the Word ELITE meaning what it does  there is a slim chance of him being elite. 

ghe was the first O-lineman taken in the draft and I don't remember any of the "experts" saying it was a huge mistake to take him.

Jonah was just fine last season until he got hurt (on a play that hurts anyone). When you remember he had possibly the worst LG in recent NFL history lined up next to him it looks even better. And yes, a bad Guard can hamper a good or even great Tackle because all of a sudden the Tackle is trying (even unconsciously) to cover both their position AND the Guard.

And before someone says it, yes the turnstile at RG hampered Hart as well. This has been a longer term failing of the Front Office - not understanding how the pieces of an OL are all complimentary.

(04-16-2021, 08:46 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: Every player has the potential to become elite....

With the Word ELITE meaning what it does  there is a slim chance of him being elite.  but he could very well be a upper teir player maybe even crack elite

(04-16-2021, 08:48 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: You just use the word ELITE to freely.  To me thats top 3 maybe 5 at the position in the whole league. for multiple years in a row.

Jonah was a top recruit in his class, he was an all American in college, and he was a top 11 pick in the NFL.
It's not a stretch to say a guy with that pedigree can be an elite player.

(04-16-2021, 10:02 AM)Burma Wrote: Moving him just to move him is not a good idea, however if he loses his position to someone who outperforms him than that is a gain for the team and good, solid team building. 

Man you’re going to be in for a rude awakening when you find out Sewell isn’t as good as Jonah is right now. A lot of people here will be.

There’s a reason why people want to move him to guard his first year. It’s not because he makes a better guard than tackle either.

(04-15-2021, 10:31 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: To bolded, I think that you're dreaming with that statement.    

The fact that the dude has already arrived physically broken from his play in college, and only mustered 10 games in his "breakout" year, tells me enough.  Bama used him up, we got damaged goods.  Time to draft a true thoroughbred.

That's harsh to consider and would be a bitter pill to swallow.  It seems like lately I've noticed more and more top tier teams who cut the chord with players who can't stay healthy sooner rather than later.  It's kind of shocking to witness from the outside looking in.  This team seems to take the exact opposite approach of crossing their fingers and hoping that the guy who they fell in love with will grow to be all that they can be.  I hope that it's not how it plays out, but at this point it wouldn't shock me.

As to OP: His ceiling is probably not quite as high as a David Bakhtiari or a Joe Thomas.  Just with his size and style he probably won't have many games where he looks like a man amongst boys as a run blocker against dudes of similar size.  His true ceiling would look like him with super savvy pass blocking, few mistakes, and run blocking that's competent not dominant(unless he's nailing a smaller guy in space).  Would that be elite?  At some things.  

Comparing measurables from some other tackles:

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/jonah-williams <---The only measurables that were above average for his position were wingspan, hand size, and 40 time.

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/david-bakhtiari <---Only his 40 and bench were impressive.  I thought his arms were longer.  He was light and small.

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/penei-sewell <---I thought that his broad jump was far more impressive relative to OTs.  Not that 83rd percentile is bad. He's short and does have shortish arms/wingspan.

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/joe-thomas <---85th percentile broad jump.  92nd percentile 40.

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/andrew-whitworth <---91st percentile broad jump.

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/tyron-smith <---No jump data.  Good 40 again.  Freakishly long arms.

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/jason-peters <--- 40 and broad jump were astounding. Very short arms.

I remember thinking that broad jump scores could be a good indicator, but apparently good 40 times can actually mean something. Arm length is probably overrated.

(04-16-2021, 11:13 AM)fredtoast Wrote: ghe was the first O-lineman taken in the draft and I don't remember any of the "experts" saying it was a huge mistake to take him.

And ur point is lol
He’s not elite and isn’t shown a damn thing that says he can be Elite at this level.

(04-16-2021, 11:30 AM)J24 Wrote: Jonah was a top recruit in his class, he was an all American in college, and he was a top 11 pick in the NFL.
It's not a stretch to say a guy with that pedigree can be an elite player.

Potentially but the guy has yet to even play a full season. let alone rate top 5 in his position

(04-16-2021, 11:13 AM)fredtoast Wrote: ghe was the first O-lineman taken in the draft and I don't remember any of the "experts" saying it was a huge mistake to take him.

Wasnt Jason Smith the First OL guy taken one year? lol draft order doesnt always equate to eliteness

I hope Johan becomes elite or at least plays close to it

(04-15-2021, 10:08 PM)impactplaya Wrote: All talk about to draft or not draft Penei Sewell has been
Very popular leading up to the draft. Great arguments on both
Sides of the fence.
But lost in all this discussuon is the current LT Jonah Williams.

My question is, can he ever become a elite LT?
Let's not forget, this was Taylors 1st draft pick ever.
I don't recall at the time the other college prospects that were
Being discussed on who to draft at that time....

But back to.Jonah. This is a very pivotal year for him.much like
For Zac Taylor too.
He hasnt played a full season yet. ( ZT doesnt have a winning season yet)

In the 10 games last year, Jonah at best was inconsistant.
I don't have the film on.him but I think he had his issues
Vs fast agile speed rushers like Myles Garrett.
I know Garrett is elite but in order to be elite, you have
To negate that elite player across from.you.

Jonah has to overcome 2 things this year.
He has to be healthy for all 17 games and he has to
Really take his game up.to another level.
Being good wont be good enough. He needs to play
At a Joe Thomas or at the very least Levi.Jones level.

The Bengals have not got anykind of dominant play from
Their LT Whitworth.
Jonah this is a very telling 3rd season for you
Your the 3rd best LT in.this division and the 5th best OT

Jonah is elite on this team. No better player on the Bengals line then Jonah.
Can they find someone better? Yes
Should they? That depends.

(04-16-2021, 12:42 PM)XenoMorph Wrote:  lol draft order doesnt always equate to eliteness

But it does equate to potential, and that is what we are talking about here.

I don't think anyone has claimed that Jonah is already elite. lol

(04-16-2021, 12:08 PM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: And ur point is lol
He’s not elite and isn’t shown a damn thing that says he can be Elite at this level.

And Whitworth did not show a damn thing that said he would be elite the first year he played.

But both he and Williams showed potential based on their performance in college 

So what is your point

lol

(04-16-2021, 12:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But it does equate to potential, and that is what we are talking about here.

I don't think anyone has claimed that Jonah is already elite. lol

And i originally Said all players have that potential just few will ever hit that mark.

(04-16-2021, 01:14 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: And i originally Said all players have that potential just few will ever hit that mark.

Now you are just playing a game of semantics.

You are trying to talk out of both sides of your mouth by claiming there is no difference in the amount of potential between the first O-lineman taken in the draft and a back up OT for a D-II school.

It seems that SOME (not all) of those favoring Sewell see a need to tear down Jonah to (I guess) justify their favoring Sewell. And it is silly. No one is denying Sewell is a Top 10 pick. That said, is he really plug and play? He sat out the entire 2020 season and the PAC 10 is a lower grade of competition. He also has a rap on him in scouting of some difficulties in his technical play - which can be coached up but the need to do so has to be acknowledged.

IF we go Sewell we need to be eyes wide open that just handing him either Tackle spot is going to result in some pain while he learns. Handing him a Guard spot is less painful but also does not take advantage of his greatest asset - his lateral movement skills.

And yes if we go Chase the same questions come up because he likewise sat the season out. But his conference is much tougher and he’s dominated top level competition. Also WR as a position is easier for a rookie to step into and acclimate simply because it is not based on being in sync with 4 other people as a unit providing blocking. Of course route running IS a complexity but if needed you can start the rook out with a simplified tree.

Just thoughts.