(04-24-2021, 12:34 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Dunlap was not good last year because he didn't want to be because he was still pouting about getting kicked out of a park, and was more concerned with Mike Brown's response than he was getting to the Quarterback. 

100% BS.

The defensive coaches wanted to get rid of him during the offseason.  When the front office did not agree with them they tried to phase Dunlap out.

(04-24-2021, 12:34 PM)Sled21 Wrote: No coach is perfect and makes every decision correctly. If he gets the blame for Brown and Green, he also gets the credit for Reader, Bell, Alexander and Waynes.  And yes, accountability is benching one of the most productive DE's in the league when that DE lays down and does not perform. Dunlap was not good last year because he didn't want to be because he was still pouting about getting kicked out of a park, and was more concerned with Mike Brown's response than he was getting to the Quarterback. 

Zac should also be accountable for his staff. A DC who's had 2 defenses ranked in the mid 20s of the NFL both seasons. Turner was a crap hire as was Lou. My guess the only reason Lou wasn't fired is because no DC wanted to work for Taylor.

(04-24-2021, 12:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 100% BS.

The defensive coaches wanted to get rid of him during the offseason.  When the front office did not agree with them they tried to phase Dunlap out.

Keep believing that. From game 1 last year Dunlap was no value added...

I just joined the boards so I never got to comment on the whole Dunlap situation. The fan reaction really surprised me. I get that players come and go and the franchise is the constant but the coaches also come and go. Dunlap with his on the field play and off the field demeanor showed me way more positives than anything about this current coaching staff. I was just surprised so many people were quick turn on him and support the coaches. I know he wasn't producing much sacks wise but who was? One play that really stuck out to me was right before they traded him. It was the last play of the game against the browns and baker threw a touchdown for the browns to win. Dunlap beat his man and probably would've gotten the sack or disrupted the pass but he was obviously held with no call. Immediately after on the sideline was when him and Lou were going at it with each other. Then he got traded.

(04-24-2021, 12:50 PM)TJ528 Wrote: Zac should also be accountable for his staff. A DC who's had 2 defenses ranked in the mid 20s of the NFL both seasons. Turner was a crap hire as was Lou. My guess the only reason Lou wasn't fired is because no DC wanted to work for Taylor.

That might not be why Lou wasn't fired, but it's definitely why he was hired.

(04-24-2021, 09:02 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Dunlap with his on the field play and off the field demeanor showed me way more positives than anything about this current coaching staff.

Dunlap has been nothing but a professional for over a decade in the NFL.  He busted his ass and produced at a high level for two different head coaches with career winning records.  The only time he has ever had any problems was under one of the worst coaching staffs in NFL history

So obviously the coaches did nothing wrong and Dunlap was the problem.  

Can you believe the mental gymnastics some people will go through to protect Taylor. 

Oh, yeah, accountability.  .  .  

(04-24-2021, 11:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dunlap has been nothing but a professional for over a decade in the NFL.  He busted his ass and produced at a high level for two different head coaches with career winning records.  The only time he has ever had any problems was under one of the worst coaching staffs in NFL history

So obviously the coaches did nothing wrong and Dunlap was the problem.  

Can you believe the mental gymnastics some people will go through to protect Taylor. 

Oh, yeah, accountability.  .  .  

Taylor isn't a good coach

But at the same time, Dunlap quit trying in 2020. There were plays you would see him walking/jogging after a running back. Once upon a time he would run guys down from behind, that fire wasn't there in 2020. Why is wasn't there... anyone's guess. Pissed at the coach, not being used correctly, who knows? But it was obvious last season that Carlos quit trying on the field. As soon as he went to Seattle, he was hustling again and running after plays full speed.

(04-24-2021, 11:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dunlap has been nothing but a professional for over a decade in the NFL.  He busted his ass and produced at a high level for two different head coaches with career winning records.  The only time he has ever had any problems was under one of the worst coaching staffs in NFL history

So obviously the coaches did nothing wrong and Dunlap was the problem.  

Can you believe the mental gymnastics some people will go through to protect Taylor. 

Oh, yeah, accountability.  .  .  

I'm still struggling with the mental gymnastics you are going through to try to argue Dunlap put forth any effort last year at all. The ball was snapped, Dunlap either stood there or was driven so deep around the edge his lane was open for huge gains for the runner.

(04-25-2021, 11:47 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I'm still struggling with the mental gymnastics you are going through to try to argue Dunlap put forth any effort last year at all. The ball was snapped, Dunlap either stood there or was driven so deep around the edge his lane was open for huge gains for the runner.

I can't pretend to know if Carlos Dunlap was giving half effort at times or not. His track record tends to make me think that's a false narrative. Plus if he was I think things were going on behind the scenes that would've been the underlying cause not saying that's justified. But players jogging after a play happens all the time you count on your team mates to make the play in they're area. Aaron Donald will jog behind the play. 

I know I'm about to dig a little deep here but atleast its not Chase or Sewell. Another thing I don't like about that whole situation is I think Dunlap only needed 1 more sack for the team record and when they benched Dalton and then went back to him he threw 1 TD and got the team record. I know the writing was on the wall with Dalton but he gave this team alot of good years even if they ended badly dude needed 1 TD for the team record and you bench him. But my ultimate fear with this coaching staff is I think they have they're system and are unable to make the slightest adjustments for individual player strengths. I also think Zac Taylor might be delusional and thinks his system will work and just needs the players to be better rather than adjust his system.

(04-25-2021, 11:47 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I'm still struggling with the mental gymnastics you are going through to try to argue Dunlap put forth any effort last year at all. The ball was snapped, Dunlap either stood there or was driven so deep around the edge his lane was open for huge gains for the runner.

Yet he was still more productive than the guys the coaches played in front of him.

Look, clearly their was a conflict between the coaches and Dunlap.  The question is who do you think was in the right?

You position seems to be that no matter how incompetent or foolish the coaches may have been you are not going to place any blame on them.  I disagree because Dunlap never had any problem with any other coaches n over a decade in the NFL and the other coaches he played for had winning records while the Bengals current staff has one of the worst records in the history of the league.  At some point you can't just say "The coaches never do anything wrong and everything is the players fault."

You guys all act like that if you were trapped in a job with incompetent bosses that were not treating you properly you all would just bend over and take it instead of doing what you had to to get out of there.  I think that is BS.  Pretty much everyone I know would try to get out of a situation like that.

(04-25-2021, 12:09 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I can't pretend to know if Carlos Dunlap was giving half effort at times or not. His track record tends to make me think that's a false narrative.

It is total BS.  Dunlap had 9 solo tackles in one game against the Eagles.  You can't do that without giving effort.

Then the coaches put him behind guys like Khalid Kareem (9 solo tackles for entire year) and Amani Bledsoe (6 solo tackles entire season).

(04-25-2021, 12:25 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I know I'm about to dig a little deep here but atleast its not Chase or Sewell. Another thing I don't like about that whole situation is I think Dunlap only needed 1 more sack for the team record and when they benched Dalton and then went back to him he threw 1 TD and got the team record. I know the writing was on the wall with Dalton but he gave this team alot of good years even if they ended badly dude needed 1 TD for the team record and you bench him. But my ultimate fear with this coaching staff is I think they have they're system and are unable to make the slightest adjustments for individual player strengths. I also think Zac Taylor might be delusional and thinks his system will work and just needs the players to be better rather than adjust his system.

I've commented on this previously.  I truly believe Zac and Lou both came into this organization believing their systems worked whether they had the players or not.  They were going to play their schemes and not adjust to the personnel they had in the building.  I think that could've been part of the issue with Dunlap.  He worked for Zimmer and Marvin's defense but not for Lou and Zac's defense.  

Fan's and the front office can no longer say that Zac doesn't have his stable of players.  He'll have had 3 years and 2 very active free agency periods where they've spent more money in free agency in team history.   Personally, I think Taylor has to make the playoffs to stay as coach.  If this team doesn't make the playoffs then this season's a failure like the last 5.  

(04-23-2021, 10:36 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: The one thing we consistently hear from the players is that they love the coaches and Zac in particular (there have been mixed reviews on Lou) so that is definitely part of leadership. Zac seems to be incredibly likeable and that's usually required to lead (the alternative method of leading if you aren't likeable is to be intimidating, which Zac is not).

One thing we are hearing from players that have left is we need new leadership.

Being likeable doesnt equal a good leader.  being respected does

(04-23-2021, 10:32 AM)TJ528 Wrote: You cant teach leadership.  

Actually, you can teach it, its just that some people are better at it than others.

(04-26-2021, 08:24 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Yet he was still more productive than the guys the coaches played in front of him.

Look, clearly their was a conflict between the coaches and Dunlap.  The question is who do you think was in the right?

You position seems to be that no matter how incompetent or foolish the coaches may have been you are not going to place any blame on them.  I disagree because Dunlap never had any problem with any other coaches n over a decade in the NFL and the other coaches he played for had winning records while the Bengals current staff has one of the worst records in the history of the league.  At some point you can't just say "The coaches never do anything wrong and everything is the players fault."

You guys all act like that if you were trapped in a job with incompetent bosses that were not treating you properly you all would just bend over and take it instead of doing what you had to to get out of there.  I think that is BS.  Pretty much everyone I know would try to get out of a situation like that.

Not my position at all. Your position seems to be if a player doesn't want to play a certain system, it is ok for him to give half effort in a poutfest.  Dunlap never had a problem with past coaches because this is the first time he was asked to play a different system, he didn't like it, he quit. I saw the effort he was given with my own eyes. I know what Dunlap was capable of, and he was barely going through the motions most games. That deserves a demotion, whether the guy behind you is worse or not. 

(04-26-2021, 10:44 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Not my position at all. Your position seems to be if a player doesn't want to play a certain system, it is ok for him to give half effort in a poutfest.  Dunlap never had a problem with past coaches because this is the first time he was asked to play a different system, he didn't like it, he quit. I saw the effort he was given with my own eyes. I know what Dunlap was capable of, and he was barely going through the motions most games. That deserves a demotion, whether the guy behind you is worse or not. 

The thing is thay neither you or I know for sure what the issue was. There could have been a lot more to it than just playing in a different system. Once Dunlap got healthy in 2019 he played great in that system the second half of the season.

Dulap's father said the coaches wanted to move him after the 2019 season but the front office would not agree. So in 2020 they just started phasing him out.

Like I said, neither of us know all the details. All I know is that Los has a long record of playing hard and being very productive under winning coaches whi know what the hell they are doing. Mranwhile even our best young defensive player has publically said that there were "communication problems" with the defensive coaching staff in 2019.