(04-26-2021, 06:09 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: If Bengals go Chase instead of Sewell or trading back for Slater, I think they will go to Edge or Williams at #38.  Hope I am wrong, but if Rousseau is there, they pull the trigger.  

Not sure Williams is as high as fans have him either. Workout warrior with little production against average competition. Rousseau is interesting and I thin a potential trade back trade up situation could be in play if they move back in one they could come up from 3 to 2 for a second guy.

(04-26-2021, 06:00 PM)blt4584 Wrote: I guess I don't really see the lesson here.

2015- Ced and Fisher
2018- Price and Glenn
2019- Williams

They have been trying, but outside of Williams showing promise, they have just been crap at it. Maybe the lesson is scout better? Maybe value the G position more, but Sewell likely isn't the long term plan there either and I don't think Brown will ever come around to it even if God told him directly. 

The lesson would be this, when you finally get the chance to take the best prospect at a position of need that you haven't been able to develop on your own in years... you do it.

Sewell and Slater are the two OL guys that are viewed as can't miss will be good pros. The floor of either of them, is still better then anyone on the current OL. After these two, there is a ton of guys but all have flaws in their games and question marks. You're gambling that this staff can find a gem instead of Ced again who was the 3rd or 4th OL choice, Price who was the clear 2nd Center and Williams that I still believe was an emergency pick once Bush was gone and hasn't been able to stay on the field.

We have in the past 5 years gotten production from later round WRs (Higgins, Boyd, Tate) as well as other position groups. We have not being able to find a good OL in the draft since Boling in 2011. And even he wasn't an Pro Bowl guy, he was just a good steady option next to Whit who was taken in 2006.

So all you can do it look at the current coaches and staff and say, which group can you coach up of the two needs. They've shown they can get more with less at WR. OL, not so much. Pollack was here before, and Price still sucked under him.

For once, I just wish they'd stop being so predictably the Bengals, take the guy that solves the issue you've had since you let Whit walk, and move on with life. 

Maybe There's a big stare down going on at PBS right now, Mikey, Katie, Zac, Duke and Elizabeth. Who's gonna blink first!?!

Good news is this Draft looks deep at WR and O Line, so there should be talent in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th no matter who our 1st pick is.

(04-26-2021, 06:01 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The whole pointing of wanting OL at 5 is because they need OL help. So, if they don't go OL at 5, why in the hell would anyone 'hope' they get no OL help at all in the next 2 rounds? They would STILL need OL help, right? Makes zero sense. 

(04-26-2021, 06:03 PM)blt4584 Wrote: In one you are hoping that an already bad team loses out to maximize draft capital, in the other you are hoping that the team can't fill needs and STAYS bad. Doesn't seem like the same thing to me.

If they address in round 2 or 3 with some average Joe and end up with 7 or 8 wins, they are out of the position for the top guy again and may even think they have the answer. We need one guy on that line that is the Whit, Willie, Richie Braham, Munoz like alpha guy that is just the anchor. I don't see any of those types in round 2. I see maybe a Clint Bolling, super good dude and a solid guard but not the anchor of your line. I want a guy who gets off the bench when a fight starts and stands up for his teammates. Not a group who sat in Miami and just watched.

I'm tired of this franchise being a joke and laughed at and losing. 

If they get shut out, you'd have to think they get active in trading for a proven guy very quickly. 

(04-26-2021, 06:21 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: The lesson would be this, when you finally get the chance to take the best prospect at a position of need that you haven't been able to develop on your own in years... you do it.

Sewell and Slater are the two OL guys that are viewed as can't miss will be good pros. The floor of either of them, is still better then anyone on the current OL. After these two, there is a ton of guys but all have flaws in their games and question marks. You're gambling that this staff can find a gem instead of Ced again who was the 3rd or 4th OL choice, Price who was the clear 2nd Center and Williams that I still believe was an emergency pick once Bush was gone and hasn't been able to stay on the field.

We have in the past 5 years gotten production from later round WRs (Higgins, Boyd, Tate) as well as other position groups. We have not being able to find a good OL in the draft since Boling in 2011. And even he wasn't an Pro Bowl guy, he was just a good steady option next to Whit who was taken in 2006.

So all you can do it look at the current coaches and staff and say, which group can you coach up of the two needs. They've shown they can get more with less at WR. OL, not so much. Pollack was here before, and Price still sucked under him.

For once, I just wish they'd stop being so predictably the Bengals, take the guy that solves the issue you've had since you let Whit walk, and move on with life. 

Personally, I think Jonah is the guy who can fill the hole since Whit walked. We are looking for someone to fill the hole since Zeitler left.

(04-26-2021, 06:31 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: If they address in round 2 or 3 with some average Joe and end up with 7 or 8 wins, they are out of the position for the top guy again and may even think they have the answer. We need one guy on that line that is the Whit, Willie, Richie Braham, Munoz like alpha guy that is just the anchor. I don't see any of those types in round 2. I see maybe a Clint Bolling, super good dude and a solid guard but not the anchor of your line. I want a guy who gets off the bench when a fight starts and stands up for his teammates. Not a group who sat in Miami and just watched.

I'm tired of this franchise being a joke and laughed at and losing. 

If they get shut out, you'd have to think they get active in trading for a proven guy very quickly. 

Well, Big Whit was drafted in the 2nd, and Braham in the 3rd by the Cards. 

(04-26-2021, 11:23 AM)Au165 Wrote: People act like who Burrow wants doesn't matter, and it doesn't, but there is one special caveat this year that is unique. Something that you keep hearing is teams have never had less information on character/work ethic/etc. then they do this year. Teams are relying on relationships with people in buildings, not casual relationships but deep long-standing ones, to get the real picture to know if a guy practices hard every day, does he get in trouble, does he show up on time. I wonder if in another year it would be Sewell as a slam dunk, but with the lack of access teams and scouts had this year if going with Chase who Burrow can actually tell you those things makes a big difference.

Also, keep in mind, the Bengals have really strong ties back to LSU even before Burrow so you got to think they are comfortable with the info coming out of LSU...maybe not so much Oregan?

This to me is the likely tie-breaker as we know exactly what we are getting in terms of work ethic and the type of person that Chase is.

I still would take Sewell and not bat an eye, but there are so many unknowns in this draft cycle that having first hand knowledge of a players character and work ethic is a major factor.

(04-26-2021, 06:39 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Well, Big Whit was drafted in the 2nd, and Braham in the 3rd by the Cards. 

I know but Whit was in 2006 we have sucked since then taking guys on the line. Sewell may not be an All Pro but he certainly becomes the best guy on the line and he appears to have that fight in him.

Not to say Chase doesn't but we've hit on WR.

I'm just frustrated Holic. Tired of this team letting us down.

(04-26-2021, 06:52 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I know but Whit was in 2006 we have sucked since then taking guys on the line. Sewell may not be an All Pro but he certainly becomes the best guy on the line and he appears to have that fight in him.

Not to say Chase doesn't but we've hit on WR.

I'm just frustrated Holic. Tired of this team letting us down.

The thing that I worry about happening if they take Sewell is that in the long term, nothing changes. Sewell will get kicked to one of the tackle spots or Reiff walks next year and they won't replace the void that would leave at G. We would have the bookend tackles, but Burrow would still be susceptible to shots up the middle, like the one that took him out. That's the one thing that bothers me when I see the pundits on TV talking about how "the Bengals need a LT to protect Burrow!", it was the interior that let him down time and time again. 

(04-26-2021, 06:31 PM)blt4584 Wrote: Personally, I think Jonah is the guy who can fill the hole since Whit walked. We are looking for someone to fill the hole since Zeitler left.

Jonah needs to show he isn't Tyler Eifert.

Can't be a line anchor and not be on the field. 

Whit got his knee all torn up this year at his age and still had the drive to rehab and push through the pain to be back in time for the playoff game for his team. I don't see that same fire in Jonah at this point.

(04-26-2021, 07:00 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Jonah needs to show he isn't Tyler Eifert.

Can't be a line anchor and not be on the field. 

Whit got his knee all torn up this year at his age and still had the drive to rehab and push through the pain to be back in time for the playoff game for his team. I don't see that same fire in Jonah at this point.

If it was his shoulder again, I would be more inclined to agree. The thing that took him out this year was a contact injury that would take out pretty much anyone other than Wolverine.

Him not coming back later in the year might not be on him. If the coaches don't let him dress, they don't let him dress. I don't know what conversations they had that led to those decisions. Whit is a guy at the end of his career on a playoff team while Jonah is at the start of his on a bad team.

(04-26-2021, 06:52 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I know but Whit was in 2006 we have sucked since then taking guys on the line. Sewell may not be an All Pro but he certainly becomes the best guy on the line and he appears to have that fight in him.

Not to say Chase doesn't but we've hit on WR.

I'm just frustrated Holic. Tired of this team letting us down.

Yeah, I get it brother. There's no doubt that the o-line has been an issue for far too long.

I guess I'm just more enthusiastic about some of the o-line options after day 1, if they don't take Sewell.

I still think trading down to about #9 is the best course of action. We should pick up another 2nd rounder. If Sewell, Pitts, Chase and Slater are all there, I see no reason to not do it. We would get a great pick and another likely starter in the 2nd too.

Wasn't there an article or something about Lapham being told about giving the pick away( think the next year he was wrong on the pick)? As teams could jump ahead of us if they wanted the same player as us?? Might just have been a thread on the message board, just something I recall.

Just take Sewell, protect your franchise. Taking chase would be ok but we would be telegraphing to the rest of the nfl that we are going OL next pick, unless we wait till round three because of the depth

(04-26-2021, 05:11 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: 15 before 38?

And I could see 15 being picked from pick 5 to the 1st pick we have in round 3. 

Again, I view it like when you have a kid and say stop trying to touch the stove it is hot. Eventually, they have to touch it and learn. Well.. the Bengals are the children here and the stove is not drafting the best OL player when you get the chance. So.. let them burn.

Obviously, from my name, I live in Montana. We burn many cords of wood each year in our woodstove. I never let our son touch the woodstove to "learn the hard way." Burns are no joke and child protective services would have the cops talking to you at the ER and you'd likely be in cuffs in a hurry.

Don't let the Bengals burn. They don't draft two OL in their first four picks, say goodbye to Burrow being the QB he could be. What Bengals fan wants that? I've followed the Bengals since they began. Enough damned suffering. Protect the QB!

(04-26-2021, 04:26 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I actually hope they screw the pooch here and maybe finally learn a lesson.

When they take Chase, I hope they get jumped a lot in round two end of round one and see the OL depth evaporate forcing them to go to another position. Then all draft long till round 4/5 where it won't matter, just watch teams keep jumping them since it will be obvious what they need. 

Maybe... just maybe they will finally learn a lesson from this.

I'm saying this as a fellow Bengals fan without trying to be rude, but posts like these make you come off as if you would be upset if they did come out with a great haul day 2 of the draft (starting Guard/Tackle, etc.) just because you didn't get to say "I told you so!"......

Where I believe you should be concerned, is who all falls from the first round and who the Bengals have 1st round grades on. That is a legitimate concern of mine. The only position I would give a pass on if they don't go o-line at 38 is pass rusher. There will be players who fall from multiple positions where the Bengals have 1st round grades on. Could be CB lol..... Same thing applies to pick 5. Chase is more of a sure thing than Sewell to a lot o people and will help Burrow from being sacked more than he was in 2020. Coverage sacks should be a thing of the past if our offense is orchestrated properly (Taylor).

I understand the frustration if we pass on Sewell, I'll be nervous to see what we do day 2 of the draft. 

(04-26-2021, 07:29 PM)EatonFan Wrote: I still think trading down to about #9 is the best course of action.  We should pick up another 2nd rounder.  If Sewell, Pitts, Chase and Slater are all there, I see no reason to not do it.  We would get a great pick and another likely starter in the 2nd too.

I'm all for a trade down, it may sting not coming out with the top 3 players on most of our radars, but Slater would be a very great pick up. I'd even be okay trading down twice. It's a great draft for QB needy teams. There should be opportunities.

(04-26-2021, 01:08 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Everyone keeps saying this, but I swear if Terrance Marshall and Rashod Bateman are available with our 2nd round pick - after we take Chase - I plan on bringing it up. Often.

There is no reason to believe at least one of the two would not be available at that point, and there is plenty of evidence to say that 2nd round receivers have outplayed first round choices over the last several seasons (actually heard it discussed on the radio recently).

I'm more interested in what we do from the third round on, honestly. This debate is so dang old at this point. I've flip flopped through the process and settled on the fact that either way we get a really talented guy in round one who will help us. From there on, I hope we draft players who help us. Obviously there are guys I think that I know are good or that I'm rooting for the Bengals to take, but the fact is it's just a guessing game. There are so many hypotheticals to any of these guys that are drafted.

I'm just ready for the draft to get here. The Sewell vs. Chase debate is as tired as the "Burrow should demand a trade" angle that the draft took last year.

Ja’marr Chase over Penei Sewell!!
Ok... this is not confirmed... but a little birdie close to Bengals higher ups told me Chase will be the 5th pick. Apparently there is concern that Penei’s arms are too short. Then Offensive Lineman in 2nd round. No shocker, but just FYI @WLWT

— MikeDardisWLWT (@MikeDardisWLWT) April 27, 2021