(04-27-2021, 11:03 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Umm Pittsburgh has always had stellar receivers since Ben has been there, so not sure where that comes from. It’s no coincidence that Brady had his best year in a long time this year because he had arguably the best or 2nd best weapons around him. Boyd and Higgins are good, but they are nothing like Davante Adams, or any of the top notch WR Pitt has had or Brady when he’s had his best seasons. You’re really reaching but you’re starting to make no sense. If you think Sewell is going to just completely change our O-line, that’s one argument, but don’t downplay the impact Chase can have on this offense.

(04-27-2021, 11:03 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Umm Pittsburgh has always had stellar receivers since Ben has been there, so not sure where that comes from. It’s no coincidence that Brady had his best year in a long time this year because he had arguably the best or 2nd best weapons around him.  Boyd and Higgins are good, but they are nothing like Davante Adams, or any of the top notch WR Pitt has had or Brady when he’s had his best seasons. You’re really reaching but you’re starting to make no sense. If you think Sewell is going to just completely change our O-line, that’s one argument, but don’t downplay the impact Chase can have on this offense.

Pitt has great WRs... okay let's dissect that statement. 

They develop great WRs I posted earlier this year they have taken I think 1 first round WR since 2001. They find guys in 2 3 and 4 and develop them. However when those guys leave, they don't do as well. 

So if they have stellar WRs it is because they find them late and develop them or because Piggy makes them better or the coaching or they have a dominate OL that gives pig time or all of the above. But it isn't from taking WRs in round 1.

Brady had an amazing year and had all the talent for one season. So this discounts all the seasons in New England where he did it with bargain basement guys who went elsewhere and sucked.

Davonta Adams is better then Boyd or Higgins (still believe Higgins can be top 15 top 10 in the league) but he is one guy that was the point. Teams need to take him away and they roll coverage and Rodgers beats them with the nobodies till Adams pops open for the kill.

Again... not saying Chase won't be a good player but he is not the right pick for where this team is now. But, he sells tickets and jerseys so... he will be the pick 

(04-27-2021, 09:31 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Fair enough, but I would rank them as Pitts, Sewell, Chase personally. 

And that ranking includes more then just the RAS score stuff:

Pitts to me is the most unique of the three, he comes in and causes so many issues for defenses and has no opt out and has shown it for years.

Sewell is at the greatest position of need for the team and has more years of success then Chase. Sewell started as a Freshman and was dominate. Got injured and bounced back like nothing happened, winning the Outland Trophy as a sophomore.

Chase came on super strong after a really pedestrian first year with Burrow. 313 yards with Burrow year 1 and was really a non factor, then gets hooked up with Joe Brady and all of the sudden, that offense explodes. I think Chase will be a good WR but he will need the type of coach that knows how to use him and get the most out of him and I don't think that is Taylor is on the Brady level.

So my rankings aren't just a "raw" prospect rank but a who comes in and gets the most out of them on this team.

I was in the minority last year saying we should trade out of one and take Herbert and the extra picks and was told I was crazy that Herbert wasn't even close to Burrow. Well, he was. Sometimes it isn't just about looking at tape and saying this guy is a good prospect, you have to take into account the team, the need, the coaching and what they are going to do with these guys. 

Ja'Marr Chase won the Biletnikoff in 2019 after a record setting season in the toughest conference in college football against multiple NFL Caliber defensive backs. What he did on the boundary that year was extraordinary.


Also if you mention Joe Brady as part of Chase's success but you also have to bring up the very offensive line friendly Oregon system. Tons of screens, throws at the line of scrimmage, and heavy playaction.

(04-27-2021, 11:03 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: If you think Sewell is going to just completely change our O-line, that’s one argument, but don’t downplay the impact Chase can have on this offense.

First of all, Chase is going to be the pick and there's nothing we can do about that. 

But I've seen these arguments too many times and need to respond. First, you'll always need 5 linemen, and will never be able to draft more than one at a time. Does that mean that we should never pick one? Lol no, obviously not. You gotta start somewhere. Having one is infinitely better than zero. That's both mathematically and literally true, I might add. :) What's more, investing a marquee pick on one- as we have an opportunity to do this year- can also give us the symbolism we need to start building an identity. It really does answer one of the longstanding issues of this team, in that the line has absolutely no anchor (pun intended).  

Either way, those points have been made too many times. What I really wanted to say is that the "impact Chase can have on this offense" is overrated. He'll be a good player, but he'll never be more than a wideout. He can't be. He doesn't even return punts. This guy is an X, plain and simple. And I can't remember the last time I watched a game and thought, "Man, thank God Team X has an X or everything would fall apart!" Probably because I've never thought that. 

More importantly, we had Ross last year to take the top off the defense in the same way that we're using now to sell fans on Chase. Not only did Ross not help, the need for speed was so moot that we didn't even play the poor guy. In fact, we couldn't come up with enough excuses to sit him that we had to say that he was injured when he wasn't, and a whole controversy ensued lol. Point being, the concept of a deep threat is always far more compelling in April than September. Always.

In the end, I don't think we're passing on Sewell because he won't "completely change our O-line". I don't think we're picking Chase because of the "impact he can have on the offense". We're picking him because he and Joe starred together at LSU. Full stop. It makes me feel like I'm in Grade 2 lol. And once the novelty wears off, I fear that we'll be mocked more ruthlessly than before for having fallen for the gimmick, and it'll take us another generation to walk off the criticism.

Anyway, sorry for the rant.

(04-27-2021, 11:59 PM)Synric Wrote: Ja'Marr Chase won the Biletnikoff in 2019 after a record setting season in the toughest conference in college football against multiple NFL Caliber defensive backs. What he did on the boundary that year was extraordinary.


Also if you mention Joe Brady as part of Chase's success but you also have to bring up the very offensive line friendly Oregon system. Tons of screens, throws at the line of scrimmage, and heavy playaction.

Again.. not discounting his one season but it is one season. He was pedestrian at best the year before. Sewell was dominate injured and dominate again.

The Oregon system didn't slow Herbert down in his conversion to the Pro game.... and hmmm screens and play action. You mean an offense like the Rams and the one Taylor is supposedly from?

Of course this is all pointless. The Bengals showed their hand. They are going Chase and jersey sales will sky rocket.

I'll win my bet at the casino and spend my 2021 season watching Lawrence and the Jags.

And before I get hit with "you're not a real fan then or blah blah blah", I'm tired of losing seasons and no success. But we went to the playoffs 5 straight years... and lost 5 straight times. That isn't success. That's failing when it matters most. We've searched for an answer to the line woes since we decided to move on from Whit by drafting Ced and have paid dearly for it since. This team has a chance to take a line anchor that it desperately needs but is going to be stupid to sell tickets and jerseys. I'm not willing to invest time into a franchise that isn't committed to winning. When all the people who cover your team and played in the pros are saying you need to take Sewell... and you don't... that is just stupidity.

As Tim McGee perfectly put it: “Will they get substance? Or will they get shine?” McGee asked. “Substance is picking an offensive lineman. I won’t say which one because there are a couple good ones out there. Or do you go with a receiver who is going to come in and shine and score some points and still make the coach (Taylor) look good and make him look like the next up and coming offensive coordinator so that if he loses this job he can get another job? Are they trying to compete at a top level? Or is this just a show of entertainment? And the draft will basically tell you what they’re thinking.”

And Tim McGee knows more then you or anyone else that posts on this message board.

(04-28-2021, 12:41 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Again.. not discounting his one season but it is one season. He was pedestrian at best the year before. Sewell was dominate injured and dominate again.

The Oregon system didn't slow Herbert down in his conversion to the Pro game.... and hmmm screens and play action. You mean an offense like the Rams and the one Taylor is supposedly from?

Of course this is all pointless. The Bengals showed their hand. They are going Chase and jersey sales will sky rocket.

I'll win my bet at the casino and spend my 2021 season watching Lawrence and the Jags.

(04-28-2021, 12:49 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:

Yup... expected that from you. Hence why I even added to my post about the here comes the you aren't a real fan crowd, thanks for being predictable.

Based on your question if it was like this when we drafted AJ I'm going to guess you weren't a fan back in the 90's. It's easy to judge people when you are new to this all.

(04-28-2021, 12:56 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Yup... expected that from you. Hence why I even added to my post about the here comes the you aren't a real fan crowd, thanks for being predictable.

It’s just so over the top, Murdock. I know you aren’t really giving up on this team over a single draft pick. You are better than these drama queen antics.

(04-28-2021, 12:59 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It’s just so over the top, Murdock. I know you aren’t really giving up on this team over a single draft pick. You are better than these drama queen antics.

I'm done Nico. I'm tired of this team doing stupid shit to make money not build a championship roster.

I get it Chase is a great WR.

But Sewell is a great Tackle. We've sucked at OL for years. We've had decent WR play last year from Boyd and Higgins. Giving the Bengals money and attention is saying I an fine with not trying to win a championship.

I'm not fine with that. I'm tried of being the 3rd or 4th best team in the division. 

It's like anything else in life, if you stop liking it or don't support their choices then you stop giving them money.

Not saying I'm not going to be gone for good but Taylor and Tobin both need to be gone if this is their vision.

We will continue to suck as long as Mike, Duke, and Zach are our three most important decision makers.

They are all awful.

I am 100% sure we take Chase.

(04-28-2021, 01:13 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Pretty sure I've never said I was done. 

I've certainly taken breaks from the board but never just flat lost faith in this team totally.

Can't tell.

(04-28-2021, 01:13 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Pretty sure I've never said I was done. 

I've certainly taken breaks from the board but never just flat lost faith in this team totally.

Murdock, I can't blame you.  

I look at myself.  When I was a teenager, 20's, 30's, and even early 40's I would watch the Bengals game every week.  

No matter how much they pissed me off and I'd turn off the TV and say I'm not watching this crap again.  I did watch the next week because I was glutton for punishment.  

When the team was REALLY bad through my 20's i still supported them. 

However, I'm coming up on my 50th birthday.  We're coming out of a global pandemic and earlier this year I was considering buying tickets.  This would be the first time in my life I'd ever buy tickets.  Then I remember what I told myself years ago, until this franchise shows its a professional organization I won't support it by purchasing anything Bengal related or buy a ticket.  

I haven't been to Paul Brown stadium since 2002, by choice.  

I'll still root for my team because they've been my team since 1982, but I'm with you I'll probably be tuning into some Jacksonville Jags games this year because I think Urban Meyer will have the biggest turn around in the NFL this year.   He's twice the coach that Taylor is because he's a proven leader.  He's a proven CEO of a football team.  He knows the pieces and parts he needs.  

Anyway, I'll be watching this team this year but not from the stands, and probably not for my couch but i'll check the score on my ESPN app to follow along.  Kind of how I do with the Reds now days. 

The fat guys tend to get lazy if they go to a losing, poorly coached, unmotivated team. Sewell will never succeed here.

(04-28-2021, 10:29 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: The fat guys tend to get lazy if they go to a losing, poorly coached, unmotivated team. Sewell will never succeed here.

Pollack is a good coach.

It's the Bengals philosophy and it will never change. They draft Burrow and he takes a record number of hits in the 10 games and he gets hurt.

During the season, EVERYBODY was saying, we have to do everything in our power to protect the guy. fans, media, team, announcers. EVERYBODY.

Bengals response - let's hire a new line coach, add a 32 year old right tackle and ignore the interior line in free agency. Now let's go ahead and draft a WR. Makes no sense.

I could make a strong that we should be going Sewell at 5 and IOL in round 2. Say what you want, but the interior line is still a mess. Especially with the best guy coming off an ACL.

(04-28-2021, 10:45 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: It's the Bengals philosophy and it will never change.  They draft Burrow and he takes a record number of hits in the 10 games and he gets hurt.  

During the season, EVERYBODY was saying, we have to do everything in our power to protect the guy.  fans, media, team, announcers.  EVERYBODY.

Bengals response - let's hire a new line coach, add a 32 year old right tackle and ignore the interior line in free agency.  Now let's go ahead and draft a WR.  Makes no sense.

I could make a strong that we should be going Sewell at 5 and IOL in round 2.  Say what you want, but the interior line is still a mess.  Especially with the best guy coming off an ACL.

If I was the GM I would draft at least 3 offensive lineman in the first 4 rounds.  I have heard some experts say that Sewell has the same potential as Orlando Pace, I just don't know how the Bengals could pass that up.  I think I will be sick if Sewell turns out to be that good and we pass on him.

(04-27-2021, 10:34 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: People compared him to Andrew Luck who went 11-5 his rookie year.

Again, it is simple.

If Burrow is elite and the QB he was hyped to be, he doesn't need Chase. Look at the WRs that cycle through Pitt, look at Green Bay with one guy, look at Brady where WRs go to be discovered...

If we have to have Chase for Burrow to be elite, then we botched the pick last season and should have gotten the extra picks and taken Herbert.

Can't be both.

In all fairness, the ONLY reason that Indy team had the first pick is because Peyton Manning went down and they had Painter playing QB.  Luck walked into a play-off team.

(04-28-2021, 11:27 AM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: If I was the GM I would draft at least 3 offensive lineman in the first 4 rounds.  I have heard some experts say that Sewell has the same potential as Orlando Pace, I just don't know how the Bengals could pass that up.  I think I will be sick if Sewell turns out to be that good and we pass on him.

The thing that makes me lean towards Sewell is Pollack as the line coach.  If he's as good as he was previously and he's so well respected around the league, why wouldn't he get an All-Pro ceiling out of Sewell.

I'd like to see us stop throwing the ball 45-50 times a game.  That's directly on the o-line.

Geoff Schwartz is a big dum-dum head. One could even say that he's no smarter than a horse. 

Start at 6:43: https://youtu.be/8bkJ09m0LvY

If you wanted to build a true contender in 2 to 3 years, it makes so much sense to take Sewell with 5 and the best guard available with the second round pick.

The Bengals might win a super bowl with Burrow. They won't win with Chase and a retired from too many injuries Burrow.

Burrow is the whole key. We haven't had a QB with his potential since Greg Cook. He can be way better than Boomer and Kenny.

Burrow needs a running game and protection on passing downs. It's not rocket science and should be obvious to anyone with a brain.

He is the whole future!!! Why would you not cash in your chips to protect him.

Chase is fantastic but I will say it for the last time- given their modest results to fix the o line in free agency, it is insane not to take Sewell and borderline insane not to take the best guard in the second round.

I will root for Chase if he is the pick and wont say I told you so ( at least more than once) when Burrow gets creamed again this year and our running game is once again non-existent against the top teams.