Hobs mocked him in the 2nd to us on Bengals.com

Most of the analytics guys have noted that he is well outside the parameters of WR's the Bengals draft, specifically break out age seems to be an issue. He is probably a slot with ability to kick out and run gadget plays, along with big return ability.

I believe we take Chase, but should we go Sewell and he is available in the 2nd do you pull the trigger?

He's 22 and still learning the position as a converted QB/RB but that is kind of an excuse since he's been a WR for the last 3. He's also been hurt a lot.

No.

They need to move to get a different kind of WR or pick in a different position group.

He's no doubt good at what he does just not what they need right now.

The only way I see this is if they really want him to share kr/pr duties... even still this would be a luxury pick.

(04-28-2021, 01:39 PM)yang Wrote: Hobs mocked him in the 2nd to us on Bengals.com

Most of the analytics guys have noted that he is well outside the parameters of WR's the Bengals draft, specifically break out age seems to be an issue.  He is probably a slot with ability to kick out and run gadget plays, along with big return ability.  

I believe we take Chase, but should we go Sewell and he is available in the 2nd do you pull the trigger?  

He's 22 and still learning the position as a converted QB/RB but that is kind of an excuse since he's been a WR for the last 3.  He's also been hurt a lot.

Not saying we should draft him with your notes but we are lacking in this type of WR.

(04-28-2021, 01:54 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Not saying we should draft him with your notes but we are lacking in this type of WR.

Agreed, but do we want to spend a 2nd on that?  I'll pass.  Some of these guys with all the quick trick moves become a problem for their QB's because of timing issues and such.   

Again, I think he is outside the analytics of what we are looking for or would draft, and it's kind of surprising Geoff is even suggesting it to be honest. 

(04-28-2021, 02:06 PM)yang Wrote: Agreed, but do we want to spend a 2nd on that?  I'll pass.  Some of these guys with all the quick trick moves become a problem for their QB's because of timing issues and such.   

Again, I think he is outside the analytics of what we are looking for or would draft, and it's kind of surprising Geoff is even suggesting it to be honest. 

I don't look at it as running certain types of routes, I look at players in terms of production they'll return.

Rd 1 to early Rd 2: 1000+ yard guy.
Late Rd 2 to early Rd 3: 700+ yard guy.
Rds 3-4: 500+ yard guy.
Rds 5-7: Depth player who may or may not develop into something more.

When I hear "gadget player," I get vibes of being a specialty player who is probably more of a WR4 type, and therefore probably won't consistently get 500+ yards.

Terrance Marshall was still on the board and that's who I'd take in that situation.

(04-28-2021, 02:30 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't look at it as running certain types of routes, I look at players in terms of production they'll return.

Rd 1 to early Rd 2: 1000+ yard guy.
Late Rd 2 to early Rd 3: 700+ yard guy.
Rds 3-4: 500+ yard guy.
Rds 5-7: Depth player who may or may not develop into something more.

When I hear "gadget player," I get vibes of being a specialty player who is probably more of a WR4 type, and therefore probably won't consistently get 500+ yards.

Hill  from KC has a times been terms  a "gadget player"  i think in today's offense sets more and more players are being looked upon to be able to moved  around and behind the line.. this is why probably both Waddle and Smith will go top 10-15 in draft

(04-28-2021, 02:44 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Hill  from KC has a times been terms  a "gadget player"  i think in today's offense sets more and more players are being looked upon to be able to moved  around and behind the line.. this is why probably both Waddle and Smith will go top 10-15 in draft

A gadget player is someone like Tavon Austin or Cordarrelle Patterson. Someone who is going to put up pedestrian receiving numbers but might add value as an occasional runner.
Hill is a WR1 who can also handle some running and unorthodox/trick plays mixed in.

Dude has serious make you miss skills.


Side note. I like Tre Nixon late in the draft for a sleeper WR if we still need one.

(04-28-2021, 02:39 PM)Au165 Wrote: Terrance Marshall was still on the board and that's who I'd take in that situation.

All day and twice on Sunday.  

Toney is very exciting to watch and could turn into a star, but it would likely be a couple years and the odds are against him.  Even last year his team's target share % was lowish, I think around 20%.  Those guys are rare to turn it around in the pros.  Marshall was the unquestioned #1 and target share leader and performed with Chase and Jefferson there.  

I'd pull the trigger on Toney. I'm an upside kind of guy, and this guy has it in spades. A creative OC could utilize double slot formations or shift him around from RB to X. 

I'm rooting for the Sewell then Marshall scenario. Marshall seems like a better fit for what we need on our team. Toney seems like a gadget player that Boyd currently occupies his natural position. He may even be an even better playmaker than the steady Boyd, but Marshall seems like a better outside the numbers, deep threat, wide body that AJ used to be.

(04-28-2021, 05:19 PM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: I'd pull the trigger on Toney. I'm an upside kind of guy, and this guy has it in spades. A creative OC could utilize double slot formations or shift him around from RB to X. 

Back in the Hue days as OC probably.

Zac ain't even in the same ballpark.

Toney can throw the football as well.

He'd be great as a mid-round add but not at #38.

(04-28-2021, 01:39 PM)yang Wrote: Hobs mocked him in the 2nd to us on Bengals.com

Most of the analytics guys have noted that he is well outside the parameters of WR's the Bengals draft, specifically break out age seems to be an issue. He is probably a slot with ability to kick out and run gadget plays, along with big return ability.

I believe we take Chase, but should we go Sewell and he is available in the 2nd do you pull the trigger?

He's 22 and still learning the position as a converted QB/RB but that is kind of an excuse since he's been a WR for the last 3. He's also been hurt a lot.

No.
No.
No.

To all of the nay saysers, blah! Kadarius Toney ain't nothin' but a bigger Brandin Cooks. Bring him on! The Bengals offense could most definitely use an infusion of diverse athletic abilities.

Sewell in 1 and Toney in 2 would be an amazing start to the draft.

I’m not sure what the character red flag is. I’ve heard it mentioned a couple times on NFL network with Toney.

I think we are still looking for clean as a whistle prospects. But this guy is talented enough to maybe make us allow an exception to that rule.

(04-28-2021, 02:06 PM)yang Wrote: Agreed, but do we want to spend a 2nd on that?  I'll pass.  Some of these guys with all the quick trick moves become a problem for their QB's because of timing issues and such.   

Again, I think he is outside the analytics of what we are looking for or would draft, and it's kind of surprising Geoff is even suggesting it to be honest. 

Of course you pick someone in 2nd if it fits your need and philosophy... 

(04-28-2021, 02:51 PM)ochocincos Wrote: A gadget player is someone like Tavon Austin or Cordarrelle Patterson. Someone who is going to put up pedestrian receiving numbers but might add value as an occasional runner.
Hill is a WR1 who can also handle some running and unorthodox/trick plays mixed in.

You and I are stuck on a vocab of a player.. let get away from the word gadget and talk a versatile player, how is that different than the discussion people are having with Pitts or other TE similar.. they say don;t call him a TE etc.. well same thing applies to some WRs now... Waddle, Smith are good examples and so is Hill ( Hill totally does not fit the definition of a X receiver)

I don't know too much about him. But I'd probably wait til the 3rd rd unless Marshall is available at 38. Then if Dyami Brown is available in the 3rd I'd take him. If he's gone I'd probably wait until the 4th or 5th rd for a wide receiver.