(05-01-2021, 10:36 AM)hollodero Wrote: Yeah I'm well aware and it usually makes little sense to pretend one could know better than the teams because one read some mock drafts.

And if the Bengals history of picking OLiners weren't that particularly bad, I would be more willing to trust their judgment over those of analysts or board members.


- Regarding the trade down, I actually thought that was fine, especially since we seemed to get a higher price than other teams that made similar moves. Two fourth rounders is quite a lot, two more lottery tickets at least.

I will have to disagree with you on the Bengals O line draft history and I can offer up extremely strong evidence to refute your speculation if you would like. Is it possible you are basing this statement off of single draft that included Ogbuehi and Fisher? 

I would also have to question you valuing the judgement of an analyst over Frank Pollack.

(05-01-2021, 10:41 AM)OSUfan Wrote: I will have to disagree with you on the Bengals O line draft history and I can offer up extremely strong evidence to refute your speculation if you would like. Is it possible you are basing this statement off of single draft that included Ogbuehi and Fisher? 

I would also have to question you valuing the judgement of an analyst over Frank Pollack.

That one draft plays a big part in that evaluation, for sure. How could it not. Billy Price wasn't a winner either though. On the other hand, there is no real success story to even that impression out, we took no one great or undervalued on Oline recently. Bodine, Westerman, Dielman, Jordan and all those later round guys I forget... zero hidden gems found. I know not everyone can be such a hidden gem, but still, that is a low success rate overall.

And I don't want to be pretentious and claim to know better than the coaching staff (or whoever makes the picks), because of course I don't. On the other hand, if one always had to trust the team over everything else, every pick would have to turn out great. Which they do not, so yeah, I think the team can make strategic mistakes or even misjudge a prospect and it's not outlandish to think so.

(05-01-2021, 10:41 AM)OSUfan Wrote: I will have to disagree with you on the Bengals O line draft history and I can offer up extremely strong evidence to refute your speculation if you would like. Is it possible you are basing this statement off of single draft that included Ogbuehi and Fisher? 

I would also have to question you valuing the judgement of an analyst over Frank Pollack.

We have traditionally had decent to high tier offensive lines even in the 90s. It’s really been the last half decade that they whiffed in the last 3 high picks.

They have success with late linemen too. Hopkins success isn’t some fluke. Kinda expect Adeniji to follow suit, it just takes more time.

And the best part is the "The offensive line is our number 1 priority this offseason"

If this is a number one priority god help us for the unforeseeable future...

(05-01-2021, 10:01 AM)OSUfan Wrote: There does not have to be a what if.

Frank Pollack obviously likes this selection and that should be all anyone needs to know. Pollack is one of the best line coaches in this game. We added a kid he really is high on and added selections in the 4th round in doing so.

The reality is that Jonah Williams and Riley Reiff are the starting OTs in 2021. They are drafting for future OT and OGs for 2021. Jackson provides a NFL ready opening day starter at either OG position and while he most likely will not play LT at the NFL level, other than emergency, he provides the flexibility and level of play to be a high caliber long time option at RT.

He is a mountain that is extremely athletic for his stature. Frank Pollack could turn this kid into a stud at RT or OG. Very good selection that immediately upgrades the offensive line.

Correct me .. was Pollack the line coach when we drafted Price ?  Correct me was Pollack the coach of the Jets who actually regressed on their Offensive line over his two years ?  He is a good coach but please don;t put him in the "elite" coaches  he has not earned that over the last 3 years of coaching

(05-01-2021, 10:54 AM)GodFather Wrote: And the best part is the "The offensive line is our number 1 priority this offseason"

If this is a number one priority god help us for the unforeseeable future...

Guess who it seems it is a #1 priority in offseason.. "Chargers" and we know already know the record setting performance Herbert put in without a great line so what do they do in offseason and probably after this season He will be the one they talking about as the next top young QB not Burrow

Signing top FA center in Lindsley, a solid versatile guard in Feiler then take Slater with their first pick  and WE...blah blah blah... we know the story too well

The draft is a bigger crap shoot than most people want to admit. There are always some top prospects that flop and some guys taken in the later rounds that outplay them. So my theory is that the more picks you have the better chance you have of getting a good player. We did not give up a second round pick. We just dropped a few slots

I like it.

(05-01-2021, 08:27 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote:  For example 1st round we had contol to take the consensus top lineman, we passed.. 

Just stop with the whining about Sewell already. We didn't just pass, we to the consensus top Receiver, which was also a need. Good lart...

(05-01-2021, 10:25 AM)Bengalholic Wrote: Draft projections are a funny thing. Marshall was widely projected to go late 1st/early 2nd, but falls to 59. A guy like Aaron Banks was projected to be a 3rd to 4th round pick, but goes 2 picks after Carman to the 49ers in the 2nd.

I wanted Banks ....hope Carman can play some G and keep BUrrow on his feet. Just knowing Pollack likely wanted Carman makes me feel better

TBH, I think we should have stayed put in round 2 and taken Barmore, as we still need to get better on the defensive interior as he was BPA to me.

(05-01-2021, 09:50 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I agree and what gets me is it feels the Chase supporters totally want to silence those like us but many of those have great pushed for a total reload on the line and have blasted picks like Sample right when they came out or blasted Bengals for picking someone with injury history and now they just put blinders on... and
say don;t complain or you are a non Bengal supporter..

I admitted in a previous post I overreacted to Carmen some though from again many of Chase supporters  stated: you should not reach even by a few picks high in draft so can't think about Slater etc.. but i guess that stops in 2nd round ??  Carmen was projected late 2nd round by most so this is a reach by their standards.  

Lets have a fair debate on this draft: which means debate our points not try to silence those that disagree since it hurts a certain narrative especially since many have done the same thing we are doing before.

Finally i would have graded this better if we would have taken a damn lineman in 3rd round...

Sorry, but a lot of you anti-Chase guys are like drama queens and constantly make outlandish false statements.  No one is trying to silence you.  You post all the time every day,  but the constant claims that Burrow is going to die and even your  biased veiwpoints are obvious to most.  Many are just trying to justify their position instead of being open to new facts.

Most offensive line experts had Carmen as the 2nd best guard prospect in the draft.   We need a guard.  You also want a guard.  We get a tp guard that some have rated as a first / 2nd round prospect AND 2 additional 4th round picks, and people cry?  Really?

Carmen had minor surgery and no pro day or he would have been a first round pick.  He is a proven experienced top talent. 

Some people will never be happy.   If the Bengals and experts are good with him then I am as well.  

(05-01-2021, 11:01 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Guess who it seems it is a #1 priority in offseason.. "Chargers" and we know already know the record setting performance Herbert put in without a great line so what do they do in offseason and probably after this season He will be the one they talking about as the next top young QB not Burrow

Signing top FA center in Lindsley, a solid versatile guard in Feiler then take Slater with their first pick  and WE...blah blah blah... we know the story too well

Chargers have a top ten defense.  Chargers have a Pro Bowl 100 reception WR (Keenan Allen) and another WR who had a 1000 yards and led the league in yards per catch in 2019 (Mike Williams) plus one of the bets receiving TEs in the league in Hunter Henry.

Bengals did not have the luxury to sign and draft nothing but O-linemen.

But haters around here got to ignore reality and spin everything negative...Blah, blah, blah, we know the story too well.

(05-01-2021, 11:04 AM)fredtoast Wrote: The draft is a bigger crap shoot than most people want to admit.

That seems to be the biggest truth of all.

So yeah, getting two additional picks is great under that premise. Two more chances to strike unexpected gold.

(05-01-2021, 09:50 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Finally i would have graded this better if we would have taken a damn lineman in 3rd round...

Yeah right.  You are already squealing and crying about our second round pick.  You would have been even harder on any O-lineman we took in the third

(05-01-2021, 11:01 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Guess who it seems it is a #1 priority in offseason.. "Chargers" and we know already know the record setting performance Herbert put in without a great line so what do they do in offseason and probably after this season He will be the one they talking about as the next top young QB not Burrow

Signing top FA center in Lindsley, a solid versatile guard in Feiler then take Slater with their first pick  and WE...blah blah blah... we know the story too well

Absolutely....They (LAC) now have a bad ass at QB and now have built a wall around him. Things looking up here in LA for Chargers. ...they seem to get it. Herbert played lights out last yr, I watched many games and right now he is better than Joe. Sorry, its the truth, he has lazer accuracy on deep balls and scrambles well to create plays out of broken ones. Had Bengals at least scored more FA talent for OL before Draft there would be no gripe/argument .  Did Bengals think Burrow would be as nimble back there pre injury?  It just seems so amazing they didnt go balls deep on O LINE to get this corrected once and for all for a likely once in a generational talent like Joe. 

(05-01-2021, 10:32 AM)psychdoctor Wrote: The position coach at LSU believed that Marshall was the most talented of the bunch including Chase.  With that said Marshall dropped for a reason no one knows for sure but medicals were the speculation.  The same goes with Jenkins.  The Jenkins issue was more lingering medicals.

Do you have links to that or know what podcast that was on? Would be interested in reading/hearing.

Marshall did have weird medicals. Coming to LSU Marshall & Jefferson were both more highly sought after recruits than Chase. Chase just ended up out working them and having the light bulb come on and from there, the sky was the limit. Joey B was the same way.

James Rapien just said on Locked On Bengals podcast that he found out Mid day Fri that in now way, shape, or form were the Bengals ever going to take Jenkins based on several different factors. And that they had Carman rated higher than Little, Radunz, Eichenberg, etc.

Time will tell!

(05-01-2021, 10:55 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Correct me .. was Pollack the line coach when we drafted Price ?  Correct me was Pollack the coach of the Jets who actually regressed on their Offensive line over his two years ?  He is a good coach but please don;t put him in the "elite" coaches  he has not earned that over the last 3 years of coaching

Would you be saying that if they took Sewell? Because, by your logic, Pollack would have had a hand in that... and he ruins offensive lines and can'tjudge talent.

You're just a malcontent. Whatever happens, the Bengals are wrong and you're going to cry. Go get yourself some Vagisil to ease the pain.

(05-01-2021, 11:04 AM)fredtoast Wrote: The draft is a bigger crap shoot than most people want to admit. There are always some top prospects that flop and some guys taken in the later rounds that outplay them. So my theory is that the more picks you have the better chance you have of getting a good player. We did not give up a second round pick. We just dropped a few slots

I like it.

Completely agree. I can see these arguments taking place in an alternative universe for other teams and positions...

We took Tom Brady in the 4th? He had a 7th round grade on him. What a waste of a pick!

(05-01-2021, 10:55 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Correct me .. was Pollack the line coach when we drafted Price ?  Correct me was Pollack the coach of the Jets who actually regressed on their Offensive line over his two years ?  He is a good coach but please don;t put him in the "elite" coaches  he has not earned that over the last 3 years of coaching

Price might actually be better under Pollack as long as he plays his natural position. I was actually impressed when Price played C last year against the Titans, but part of that was how terrible he did at OG earlier in the year. For all we know, he beats out Hopkins and becomes a solid C under Pollack. I cant write Price off yet under the different circumstances. Jim Turner sucked, plain and simple. Any one of our players could thrive under the new blocking scheme and coaching compared to what they did under Turner. 

(05-01-2021, 11:14 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Chargers have a top ten defense.  Chargers have a Pro Bowl 100 reception WR (Keenan Allen) and another WR who had a 1000 yards and led the league in yards per catch in 2019 (Mike Williams) plus one of the bets receiving TEs in the league in Hunter Henry.

Bengals did not have the luxury to sign and draft nothing but O-linemen.

But haters around here got to ignore reality and spin everything negative...Blah, blah, blah, we know the story too well.

Hunter Henry went to the Pats, but the rest of your post is spot on.