(05-01-2021, 07:55 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Us o-line guys can't catch a break.

We've watched busts like Ogbuehi, Fisher, etc.

We finally trade up and take...Bodine. We finally take a Center in first round...bust. We make a trade...bust (Glenn).

The team treats the line like a red headed step child in free agency. We finally sign someone semi-decent (Reiff) and it's a 1 year deal. Yet he's used as an excuse to pass on an amazing line prospect that fell in our laps.

I mean, congrats to all the Chase guys. I get it. He looks really nice. I'm excited to recreate the LSU offense (no sarcasm) too.

But to act like you don't understand where the o-line guys are coming from is kiiiiinda ridiculous. For the 5th off-season in a row, we made a couple moves, but really didn't go "all-in" on the line.

Its been our #1 problem BY FAR for 5 seasons now, yet it's never treated as our #1 priority in the offseason. Signing Reiff to a one year deal and nabbing a couple in rounds 2-4 is nice, but let's be honest...that level of focus doesn't match the level of the problem.

Yep, it's almost like they think the Bengals play in the flag football division.  When in reality, the AFCN is comprised of teams with strong defenses and dominant OLs.

I was being serious about recreating LSU though. Heck, at this point maybe we should hire Joe Brady to replace Zac, if this season spirals.

(05-01-2021, 08:22 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I wish I could share your optimism, but as it stands, most of the improvement we'll see this year will be due to Pollack, who I do feel is an amazing coach. I'm not as sold on the bodies we added though. It was barely above a standard issue offseason for us, as far as free agency/draft.

Is there a 2nd year option for Reiff? Gotta admit I haven't really looked into that...I just keep hearing he's on a 1 year deal.

The 2nd year is a 'void year' just for the purposes of spreading the salary out. But, since they are paying him next year anyway, I don't think it's out of the question they could bring him back on another 1 year deal again.

(05-01-2021, 08:25 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The 2nd year is a 'void year' just for the purposes of spreading the salary out. But, since they are paying him next year anyway, I don't think it's out of the question they could bring him back on another 1 year deal again.

Ok, so basically it's a 1 year deal. Hopefully he plays well and we bring him back.

(05-01-2021, 08:37 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Ok, so basically it's a 1 year deal. Hopefully he plays well and we bring him back.

Yep and yep.

(05-01-2021, 08:24 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yep, it's almost like they think the Bengals play in the flag football division.  When in reality, the AFCN is comprised of teams with strong defenses and dominant OLs.

Damn you don't have to be so condescending about it.  That's just silly.

(05-01-2021, 08:47 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Damn you don't have to be so condescending about it.  That's just silly.

I apologize if my rather extreme analogy was a buzz kill on your euphoria of the overwhelmingly dominant OL prospects that the Bengals selected. 

(05-01-2021, 08:54 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I apologize if my rather extreme analogy was a buzz kill on your euphoria of the overwhelmingly dominant OL prospects that the Bengals selected. 

Who said that?

I hardly ever agree with Fred but this seems like you're projecting a bit much.

We have to be improved on OL.
Reiff > Hart

Anyone we drafted or lumps of crap > Jordan and Redmond.

Spain should be average with full year.

(05-01-2021, 08:24 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yep, it's almost like they think the Bengals play in the flag football division.  When in reality, the AFCN is comprised of teams with strong defenses and dominant OLs.

Sometimes I think Zac Taylor has rebuilt the Bengals to compete in the NFC West, not the AFC North.

(05-01-2021, 09:00 PM)Boomer Anderson Wrote: We have to be improved on OL.
Reiff > Hart

Anyone we drafted or lumps of crap > Jordan and Redmond.

Spain should be average with full year.

Right.

Look... let's face it.  The main reason people are concerned is because of Jonah's injuries.

Williams very well could be the next Eifert.  He's got talent but can't stay on the field to bring enough value.

Let's just hope and pray that JW can pull through this stuff. 

(05-01-2021, 06:11 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Well, I apologize if I'm coming off as negative during this draft class, as I'm typically one of the more optimistic personalities on this board.  I've been a fan since I was old enough to understand what football was.  I was blessed with a couple of Superbowl teams put together by Paul Brown in my youth, and have been ever disappointed since controlling ownership passed onto Mike.

I survived the dismal 90's, fully embraced the transition to the Marvin Lewis era, along with it's two complete cycles of highs and lows.  I've always held onto hope that once Katie assumed the controlling nod that things would change for the better.  I even got excited about the uptick in free agency play in the past two years.  However, one relic remains, Duke Tobin.  It's time for him to be relieved of his duty, and a proper GM installed.

Duke's drafts, particularly at the top end, have really been lacking in the past 5-8 years.  I'm tired of it.  We don't need a VP over player personnel that needs to call a former player that's been retired for 14 years to get his opinion on taking a Tackle that just had back surgery..  Enough already, let's just hire a true NFL GM to manage the roster and partner with Katie on making the deals happen.

This draft?  I wanted Sewell, as I thought it would make a definitive statement on the direction the team wants to go, as well as affirm their commitment to protecting the franchise QB.  That didn't happen, but I'm totally fine with Ja'Marr Chase.  He's going to be a super star in the league, and I love that he's now a Bengal.

Now, taking Jackson freakin' Carman at least a round early, after trading 8 spots back and watching really good OL get swooped up?  That is one of those "only the Bengals" moments.  I mean, I could have almost gotten on board with taking the overweight big man with short arms, until I learned about the recent back surgery.  Egad!  I know that many on here are enamored with him, and I suspect it's because he's a "local product" more than anything.

I'm completely fine with the skinny Tackle taken from ECU in the 4th.  He's going to grow and develop into a fine player, in two to three years.

I started to get excited about taking the big Center from Georgia, until I realized that he's coming off of double knee surgeries.  He also has weight issues, and needs intense work on flexibility once he's healed up.  I hope he regains the confidence to go hard in the next couple years.

Noticing a trend here?  The unit responsible for Joe Burrows demise last season, gets bolstered with two IR guys and a developmental guy.  After the lack of OL action in free agency, I'm not very convinced about the Bengals commitment to protecting Joe Burrow, and developing a rushing attack to take some of the load off of his shoulders.

This team needs a true, football GM.  It's about 30 years past time.  THAT, is why I seem pissy during this year's draft.

Sunset sorry bro but you are completely overreacting to the disc procedure that Jackson had. This has become a routine procedure. Caleb Farley the first round draft selection has had 2 back procedures since 2019 and one this past March if I am not mistaken. If you think people are onboard with him because he is a local product then you are not looking objectively at the selection. I would suggest watching some film on him. Look at how he makes his initial block in the run game and then moves fluidly to the second level, shows his high football IQ by immediately identifying his next target, and then attacks the target. That "fat" guy moves with excellent athleticism for his size.

No he is not a LT candidate at the NFL level but I honestly believe he is a guy that could be a high caliber guard or RT for many years to come. He brings football IQ, athleticism and real man strength. You stated that he was drafted a round early and I would have to ask the source of this information outside of the babbling heads. I have seen statements that have been credited to actual football personnel that would contradict that evaluation. I have seen him ranked in the 45 to 50 range so not sure how 46 is considered a reach at all.

(05-01-2021, 09:04 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Sometimes I think Zac Taylor has rebuilt the Bengals to compete in the NFC West, not the AFC North.

Possible.

He is one of these after all...

(05-01-2021, 06:53 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That starting OL we added?  That's an old player, on a one year, bargain deal.  You really think that he's any sort of long term solution?  Reilly Reiff isn't the solution, he's a bandaid on a shotgun blast..

This coming from a guy who consistently bashed the Bengals for replacing Andrew Whitworth.....

(05-01-2021, 07:57 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I never said that Reiff won't help, I said he's no solution.  

Stop with the lame semantics argument.  Teams all across the NFL sign guys to one-year contracts as part of their "solution" to weak spots in their roster.  They often do this when they do like the Bengals did and draft a project that will need a year to develop.  And sometimes they re-sign the player to a long term deal if he works out for them.

The fact is that we added a proven quality starter to upgrade our O-line and all you are doing is whimpering and crying about it.

(05-02-2021, 12:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Stop with the lame semantics argument.  Teams all across the NFL sign guys to one-year contracts as part of their "solution" to weak spots in their roster.  They often do this when they do like the Bengals did and draft a project that will need a year to develop.  And sometimes they re-sign the player to a long term deal if he works out for them.

The fact is that we added a proven quality starter to upgrade our O-line and all you are doing is whimpering and crying about it.

Not to mention most players available this year were asking for 1 year deals, in hopes of getting better deals next year with the new cap.

(05-01-2021, 07:55 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: But to act like you don't understand where the o-line guys are coming from is kiiiiinda ridiculous. For the 5th off-season in a row, we made a couple moves, but really didn't go "all-in" on the line.

Its been our #1 problem BY FAR for 5 seasons now, yet it's never treated as our #1 priority in the offseason. 

Over the last 5 off seasons we have have used our first pick on O-line twice, used another second round pick on O-line, traded for the 8th highest paid OT in the league, and signed another guy who has been a solid starting LT for 8 straight years.

I understand that some of those moves did not work out.  But it is silly to act like the Bengals are "ignoring" the O-line or are not trying to fix it.

You have to understand that over the last 5 off seasons the Bengals have had a lot of holes in a lot of other places on their roster.  It is impossible to use all draft picks and all free agent money on just the O-line.

A couple things.  There is a tendency to group all the past years of failure regarding the offense line to the organization and not to individual personnel.  

I know Paul Alexander is held in high regard by some but I think his judge of talent was not the best with the exception of Big Willie and some others.  Turner had his own coaching issues.  I believe each use their own schemes which I believe were power gap.  I would like to give the new offense line coach some time to implement his own scheme approach.

When selecting player personnel they may be gifted but limited by experience in a certain scheme.  This is why when you are reading draft profile they actually now in some areas list the scheme experience with that particular player.  If that player has experienced in several different schemes they will list a term as versatile or something similar.

I think another issue that's not talked about is because of the pandemic there was limitations in evaluation.  When players opt out there's not a lot of information to fill in the gaps.  You have to rely on others viewpoints and experience with that player and that adds some risk.  

A player's health issue is usually held confidential and due to laws one cannot investigate health records without player authorization and consent.  When Justin Fields seizure came out during the draft process and evaluation it caught many by surprise.  I'm not sure what happened but I believe fields agent felt it was necessary to share that information before the process rather than afterwards because it would be viewed as slight of hand and dishonest in some ways.  

Jenkins was off the Cincinnati Bengals board from when I'm hearing from those in the know.  The Bengals were not going to draft him no matter what is what I'm hearing. We fans have some of the information but not as much information as coaches and draft personnel.  

Big Willie has worked with Carman and personally vouched for him.  Carman also worked in Dallas Texas with a sports performance training and they spoke highly of him and they worked with many of the draftees this year.  They praised him as one of the best they worked with this year.

Carman played with a herniated disc most of last year at least a handful of games and that's why his performance dropped some.  They recommended surgery then but he wanted to be out there with his teammates even though there was the risk of lowering his draft capital and he played in severe pain just to help his team win.

Some say that he is one of the best if not the best guard in this draft class who can play spot duty at right tackle. I wouldn't know as a fan I thought others might be rated higher at guard.

The Bengals need the offense line to be at least average.  It would nice to be good if not great in that position group but I don't think that's going to happen for at least a couple years because eventually they're going to have to pay that quarterback and some skilled positions and they're just not going to be able to afford it.  Give Joe burrow an average offensive line and he's going to tear up other teams.

 

(05-01-2021, 06:42 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Carman is not on IR an we added a starting O-lineman in free agency.

Stop making stuff up just to whine about.

We did not add a lineman, we replaced a lineman who was not very good. Still are sadly weak at interior line, but may have upgrades with the Hill and Carman pick. 

(05-02-2021, 12:19 PM)Sled21 Wrote: This coming from a guy who consistently bashed the Bengals for replacing Andrew Whitworth.....

Sled, Reilly Reiff is a very respectable player who's played a solid career, but he's certainly no comparison to Andrew Whitworth.  Frankly, I'm a bit surprised that you would even try to make that reach.