Good OP.

One nit: I think Hendrickson + Ossai are replacing Dunlap + Lawson. Not sure that is an upgrade. With how Lou (mis)usedDunlap, it probably is.

(05-02-2021, 01:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I would not say "several positions" but I agree with the overall point you are making.  Good teams have decent back ups, but even they struggle when they have to start guys at the margins of the roster.  LeShaun Simms is a perfect example.  He started 10 games for us. It hurt to lose Waynes before the season even started, but we still would have had decent talent at CB if we had not lost Alexander for 3 games, Jackson for 2, and Phillips for 4.

Same at DT.  Geno is one of my all-time favorite Bengals, but when he tried to come back and play injured last year he was useless.  Billings was no big star, but he was good enough to get $4million a year from the Brows in free agency.  When we lost Reader we had scraps at DT.  If Reader and Ogunjobi can stay healthy this year we will go from some of the worst to one of the best duos in the league.  It will be by far our most improved position.  And even though DTs usually don't put up big sack numbers it is very hard for edge rushers to get sacks when the QB can just step up into the pocket.

Then, he opted out for COVID.  He is currently back at Cleveland on a one year deal.  

Our 2 minute D was atrocious. The last 10 minutes of each half were awful. We were borderline good the other 40 minutes.

(05-02-2021, 02:02 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Good OP.

One nit: I think Hendrickson + Ossai are replacing Dunlap + Lawson. Not sure that is an upgrade. With how Lou (mis)usedDunlap, it probably is.

Hendrickson has also been a lot more durable than Dunlap...last year was his first full year healthy.  I think Dunlap just sucked last year and we are well rid of him.  

(05-02-2021, 01:32 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Good thread, Racer. We definitely upgraded a lot of the biggest problem areas. And one you didn’t even mention was not a punching bag, but a SCUM BAG. And that’s replacing Jim Turner (terrible human being & terrible OL coach) with a well respected guy like Pollack who at times has been a top 5 OL coach in the league. Between Carman at RG, teams having to respect Chase, and Pollack becoming the run game coordinator...I expect big things from Mixon this season (if he can stay healthy).

Excellent point....He needed mentioned as well, no doubt.  Tough probably for Taylor with their family ties, but the guy stunk it up for two years and got our QB killed.  Buh-bye.  

(05-02-2021, 01:44 PM)Mobster Wrote: That's an indictment of Dunlap. Nobody ever doubted he could "ball out" when he wants to. He'd be invisible at times times then turn it on when he felt motivated. Nobody questioned that he'd be motivated after forcing his way out of Cincy. Those are the type of guys we're trying to weed out though. 

Absolutely.  And it was discussed at length on the most recent (excellent) Bengals Booth Podcast where they went through all the players and spoke with the coaches of the earlier picks.  A very common thread as Lapham pointed out:  These guys (and he named Hendrickson and some other FAs as well) are all EFFORT guys.  High motor.  Relentless.  He said this team will have energy in every practice and every snap with all the relentless guys they have added.

Dunlap showed up big for Seattle for a couple games but then disappeared again.  I always liked the guy, but he really showed his ass in his final days here and I am glad we seemingly have fewer guys like this and more relentless team guys.  

Hendrickson to me is an upgrade over Lawson - doesn’t have the injury issues and he actually finishes the play on the pass rush (sacks as opposed to just pressures). Ossai will platoon with Hubbard and help us having a pass rush from both sides. Ogunjobi restores at least some of the interior pressure we lost when Geno’s health failed him.

Then you get the other three DL picks - we are restocking the DL cupboard so to speak.

And the same is true of the other line. Instead of what we wheeled out to start last season we have Jonah - Carman - Trey - Spain - Reiff. This assumes Carman wins a starting role and yes I know I might have the Guard spots mixed up a little. This is considerably better. And the depth behind them is also a lot stronger. Just the fact that in this scenario the next man up at G is NOT MJ is big.

Oh, and add another Punching Bag and Replacement:

Punching Bag: Turner (utterly justified)

Replacement: Pollack. WORLDS better.

(05-02-2021, 12:42 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Lou is probably the biggest punching bag on this board, and maybe he deserves to be, but the guys on NFL Sirius radio were talking about his situation one day and their general consensus was that after all the injuries on defense last year, they didn't believe any DC in the league could have been successful. They were saying the drop off between 1st and 2nd string should not be that much, but that anytime you go deeper into the depth chart than that at any position, it's a disaster, and we did that at several positions... getting as deep as 5th and 6th string.

Good point Sled. When you reach to your practice squad as much as we did last year, it was a given that we were pretty screwed. We have to fix this injury bug that has plagued us for years. Yes, I know, all teams have injuries but damn!

(05-02-2021, 03:11 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Good point Sled. When you reach to your practice squad as much as we did last year, it was a given that we were pretty screwed. We have to fix this injury bug that has plagued us for years. Yes, I know, all teams have injuries but damn!

Injuries have plagued this team since forever...
Sure every team deals with them but the injuries to our players have been devastating.. Season ending/Career ending..
And those injuries have unfortunatly happened to fall on our most important players in their respected careers..
Damn is right Sir!!
I aint pouting or dwelling...
Just stating fact..
Lets just hope Joey B. will recover completely and lead this team back to the playoffs and finally go deeper than the wildcard elimination..

(05-02-2021, 03:21 PM)Spider Wrote: Lets just hope Joey B. will recover completely and lead this team back to the playoffs and finally go deeper than the wildcard elimination..

That most of our hopes as well. Burrow is the real deal. We will get there and as many years that I thought we might have turned a corner, and didn't? Well, maybe this time we have. We have good pieces. Coaching has to step up and get these guys not only game ready, but hungry.

(05-02-2021, 03:29 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: That most of our hopes as well. Burrow is the real deal. We will get there and as many years that I thought we might have turned a corner, and didn't? Well, maybe this time we have. We have good pieces. Coaching has to step up and get these guys not only game ready, but hungry.

You are correct sir...
Coaching has never seemed more important than right now and for the next couple years...
Get these new OLine men up to speed and allow to take their licks but in the meantime learn and gel together as a unit not as indiviual players..
The weapons are in place..
Protect Joe.. alllow him the time to go thru his progressions.. 2 extra seconds is all he will need..
This team could be very dangerous..
Potentially extremely dangerous

(05-02-2021, 01:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I would not say "several positions" but I agree with the overall point you are making.  Good teams have decent back ups, but even they struggle when they have to start guys at the margins of the roster.  LeShaun Simms is a perfect example.  He started 10 games for us. It hurt to lose Waynes before the season even started, but we still would have had decent talent at CB if we had not lost Alexander for 3 games, Jackson for 2, and Phillips for 4.

Same at DT.  Geno is one of my all-time favorite Bengals, but when he tried to come back and play injured last year he was useless.  Billings was no big star, but he was good enough to get $4million a year from the Brows in free agency.  When we lost Reader we had scraps at DT.  If Reader and Ogunjobi can stay healthy this year we will go from some of the worst to one of the best duos in the league.  It will be by far our most improved position.  And even though DTs usually don't put up big sack numbers it is very hard for edge rushers to get sacks when the QB can just step up into the pocket.

We were that deep into it at DT, and at least into 3 or 4 at Corner.....

(05-02-2021, 04:06 PM)Spider Wrote: You are correct sir...
Coaching has never seemed more important than right now and for the next couple years...
Get these new OLine men up to speed and allow to take their licks but in the meantime learn and gel together as a unit not as indiviual players..
The weapons are in place..
Protect Joe.. alllow him the time to go thru his progressions.. 2 extra seconds is all he will need..
This team could be very dangerous..
Potentially extremely dangerous

We havent been very dangerous for a long time. Good answer.

Is two extra seconds asking too much??
Its a real question..
Whats the average time a QB has in the pocket when it clean??
Anyone Know?

(05-02-2021, 04:41 PM)Spider Wrote: Is two extra seconds asking too much??
Its a real question..
Whats the average time a QB has in the pocket when it clean??
Anyone Know?

Yes. That’s an eternity.

(05-02-2021, 02:02 PM)Mobster Wrote: He wasn't fine. He needed babysitter like Marvin to stay on him constantly. He's a toddler.

So Marvin kept him in check, and Zac and co didn't. Glad we agree.

(05-02-2021, 03:11 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Good point Sled. When you reach to your practice squad as much as we did last year, it was a given that we were pretty screwed. We have to fix this injury bug that has plagued us for years. Yes, I know, all teams have injuries but damn!

It's just like Taylor said in his interview, when you've run through your depth chart and are signing guys off the street on Labor Day and on Columbus Day to have players to put in the lineup, it's not going to work. I don't care who the DC is.... As soon as Sims made his way into the starting lineup, opposing QB's just started salivating. 

Trey Hendrickson had 6.5 sacks coming into last season. 2020 may have been an anamoly or it was his breakout. We won't know til this season, so I have a hard time chalking him up as an upgrade. I hope last season was a sign of things to come, but it remains to be seen.

Remember Hendrickson was a spot player before 2020, which was his first season as a full time starter. And he responded with 13.5 sacks. Lawson did okay with pressure but consistently failed to seal the deal. Between Hendrickson, Ogunboji and our draft picks on the DL the ability of the DL to generate pass rush looks to be enhanced a lot.

(05-02-2021, 05:53 PM)jason Wrote: Trey Hendrickson had 6.5 sacks coming into last season. 2020 may have been an anamoly or it was his breakout. We won't know til this season, so I have a hard time chalking him up as an upgrade. I hope last season was a sign of things to come, but it remains to be seen.

He will want to build on that. Let's hope the latter.