(05-02-2021, 07:55 PM)PDub80 Wrote: There wasn't a single... SINGLE OT in this draft that the Bengals could draft (including Sewell) that was going to come in and olay OT. Literally every single guy was going to stsrt at Guard. For anyone to knock Carman for that is goofy considering any 1st or 2nd roind O-lineman in this draft was going to be the RG if they won a starting role.

Pumped for the kid from GA to also fight for that G spot or just win the C role outright.

I know. Whoever we picked had to be a capable tackle and guard. Slater might have made more sense since he us versatile enough to do that. Sewell was gifted enough to do that but hasn’t done it. Darrisaw is a pure LT and might be the best tackle in the draft.

But yeah there were fans who honestly wrote about moving a tackle to guard was awful knowing that Sewell was going to do the same. Oi.

(05-02-2021, 07:55 PM)PDub80 Wrote: There wasn't a single... SINGLE OT in this draft that the Bengals could draft (including Sewell) that was going to come in and olay OT. Literally every single guy was going to stsrt at Guard. For anyone to knock Carman for that is goofy considering any 1st or 2nd roind O-lineman in this draft was going to be the RG if they won a starting role.

Pumped for the kid from GA to also fight for that G spot or just win the C role outright.

I disagree here a little PDub. 

Reiff has G experience and for a high caliber guy at Tackle, I could see him moving back to guard. (Sewell or Darrisaw)

That being said, I like the Carman pick but I can not stress this enough... I like the pick as long as he stays at Guard. I don't like him as a long-term answer at RT when Reiff's contract runs out. This is part of the issue with not getting a long term solution for tackle, yes I know they took a guy in round 4, but that isn't a sure thing and if you want to knock the Pac-12 for competition, how can you be at all excited about the non-talent on DL that played against East Carolina?

I think it was Shake or maybe Wyche that stated the Bengals just kicked the can down the road for another year instead of really going all in and just fixing it.

Next year you have Spain, Reiff and Price (not that he will be missed) all without contracts, leaving two open spots on the line. I know the team might re-sign either Spain or Reiff but if they play well there will be teams willing to over-pay with the cap expected to go up so much.

(05-02-2021, 07:55 PM)PDub80 Wrote: There wasn't a single... SINGLE OT in this draft that the Bengals could draft (including Sewell) that was going to come in and olay OT. Literally every single guy was going to stsrt at Guard. For anyone to knock Carman for that is goofy considering any 1st or 2nd roind O-lineman in this draft was going to be the RG if they won a starting role.

Pumped for the kid from GA to also fight for that G spot or just win the C role outright.

Eh, no.

That was the knock: there were several guys who could play tackle day 1 if Jonah doesn't make it out of camp (again). And If they aren't needed, they could play guard Day1 and wait for that fated day when Jonah goes Jonah.

The knock on Carman is that he's not going to be ready to go day 1 as a guard. 

I think (as do many others) that Carman can play guard. But he's several months off. I think (as do many others) Carman can play tackle... but you're talking at least a couple seasons.

(05-02-2021, 10:52 PM)Benton Wrote: Eh, no.

That was the knock: there were several guys who could play tackle day 1 if Jonah doesn't make it out of camp (again). And If they aren't needed, they could play guard Day1 and wait for that fated day when Jonah goes Jonah.

The knock on Carman is that he's not going to be ready to go day 1 as a guard. 

I think (as do many others) that Carman can play guard. But he's several months off. I think (as do many others) Carman can play tackle... but you're talking at least a couple seasons.

Dude is making Eifert look reliable.

(05-02-2021, 05:06 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Big Whit spoiled us.


When you have 2 top talents who are viewed pretty equally and you choose one, that's where your true priority was.

Saying picking 3 guys in later rounds trumps that, is like saying that signing 1 WR for $15 million and 3 lineman off the scrap heap means we put line before WR.

Except that they werent scrap heap picks. The O line would not have been fixed with one OT. By converting the second pick into a G, a DT, and an OT they did much more to fix the problems than just picking Sewell first. Plus they got the best WR. Much smarter the way they actually did it.

(05-02-2021, 11:34 PM)Beaker Wrote: Except that they werent scrap heap picks. The O line would not have been fixed with one OT. By converting the second pick into a G, a DT, and an OT they did much more to fix the problems than just picking Sewell first. Plus they got the best WR. Much smarter the way they actually did it.

Thing is, could have flipped the first two picks easily. Sewell in 1 then Marshall in two. Have the same level of talent just the best one in the draft for your OL and the 4th or 5th best guy at WR. 

This draft will be criticized for years. The only way the questions go away is if Chase plays mistake free HoF level football while Sewell busts and Carman is solid.

If Carman and Smith and Hill don't pan out, it doesn't matter how good Chase does. 

And if the season ends, and Sewell is voted Pro-Bowl and Marshall outproduces Chase, the server might crash around here.

I can't speak for anyone but myself. I see where WR needed help but it felt like OL has needed help for 6 years where WR was literally an issue for the past two seasons of Green falling off. That is what pissed me off then and still annoys me now. We addressed the smaller of the issues with a sure patch. Meanwhile the elephant in the room got a good possible piece in Carman and two later round questions.

(05-02-2021, 11:46 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Thing is, could have flipped the first two picks easily. Sewell in 1 then Marshall in two. Have the same level of talent just the best one in the draft for your OL and the 4th or 5th best guy at WR. 

This draft will be criticized for years. The only way the questions go away is if Chase plays mistake free HoF level football while Sewell busts and Carman is solid.

If Carman and Smith and Hill don't pan out, it doesn't matter how good Chase does. 

And if the season ends, and Sewell is voted Pro-Bowl and Marshall outproduces Chase, the server might crash around here.

I can't speak for anyone but myself. I see where WR needed help but it felt like OL has needed help for 6 years where WR was literally an issue for the past two seasons of Green falling off. That is what pissed me off then and still annoys me now. We addressed the smaller of the issues with a sure patch. Meanwhile the elephant in the room got a good possible piece in Carman and two later round questions.

Taking Marshall at 38 would have been a reach based on need. Dude didn't go until 59. Now I would have loved Sewell at #5OA but then we would have had to reach for WR. 

(05-03-2021, 12:07 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Taking Marshall at 38 would have been a reach based on need. Dude didn't go until 59. Now I would have loved Sewell at #5OA but then we would have had to reach for WR. 

Not at 38.

I'm saying you literally have the exact same draft, trade included and you get Marshall at the end of two, with the extra 4ths and the pick of Cosmi.

Honestly, you can look at round 1 and say that nothing changes if we take Sewell.

Sewell
Waddle/Chase
Chase /Waddle

They still go 5, 6, 7. 

It really will be a draft that is looked at for a long time since we've not been in a position like this in a long time. Most drafts that I remember, there was 1 guy we were zeroed in on as fans, with a few fringe guys people liked. I honestly can't remember a time where the fan base was split this far apart. And either the team hit the pick with someone we all sort of liked or was the top choice or was a need or they botched it and we all hated it. (Looking at you John Ross).

This is really the only time I can think of where there was two guys that split the fanbase in half like this. Chase needs to be HoF level to make the other half forget... or Sewell just needs to totally bust.

(05-02-2021, 11:46 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Thing is, could have flipped the first two picks easily. Sewell in 1 then Marshall in two. Have the same level of talent just the best one in the draft for your OL and the 4th or 5th best guy at WR. 

This draft will be criticized for years. The only way the questions go away is if Chase plays mistake free HoF level football while Sewell busts and Carman is solid.

If Carman and Smith and Hill don't pan out, it doesn't matter how good Chase does. 

And if the season ends, and Sewell is voted Pro-Bowl and Marshall outproduces Chase, the server might crash around here.

I can't speak for anyone but myself. I see where WR needed help but it felt like OL has needed help for 6 years where WR was literally an issue for the past two seasons of Green falling off. That is what pissed me off then and still annoys me now. We addressed the smaller of the issues with a sure patch. Meanwhile the elephant in the room got a good possible piece in Carman and two later round questions.

The issue is X WR was a more glaring issue than any of the individual OL positions.

T was not a position where they needed an immediate starter.  They needed another guy to groom/depth, and they got that with Smith.  

C was not a position where they needed an immediate starter.  They needed a developmental player/depth and they got that with Hill.  There was not a C worth the pick at 5, anyways.

G was a position where they needed an immediate starter and they got that with Carman.  There wasn't a G worth the #5 pick, either.  The argument has been made that you kick Reiff to G if you take Sewell.  Problem is, very few T's come in and play at Reiff's level as rookies.  There is a very good chance that you just wind up robbing Peter to pay Paul and downgrading the T position for an upgrade at G.

X WR was the position where they needed an immediate starter and there was one available that was worth the #5 pick.  

Marshall likely was not seen as a great option for them as he had medical flags turn up late that couldn't be properly vetted and they were seemingly planning on only taking 1 WR.  It was very clear that they planned on trying to fill all their immediate needs and were not just willing to punt on them until next year.

(05-03-2021, 12:45 AM)Whatever Wrote: The issue is X WR was a more glaring issue than any of the individual OL positions.

T was not a position where they needed an immediate starter.  They needed another guy to groom/depth, and they got that with Smith.  

C was not a position where they needed an immediate starter.  They needed a developmental player/depth and they got that with Hill.  There was not a C worth the pick at 5, anyways.

G was a position where they needed an immediate starter and they got that with Carman.  There wasn't a G worth the #5 pick, either.  The argument has been made that you kick Reiff to G if you take Sewell.  Problem is, very few T's come in and play at Reiff's level as rookies.  There is a very good chance that you just wind up robbing Peter to pay Paul and downgrading the T position for an upgrade at G.

X WR was the position where they needed an immediate starter and there was one available that was worth the #5 pick.  

Marshall likely was not seen as a great option for them as he had medical flags turn up late that couldn't be properly vetted and they were seemingly planning on only taking 1 WR.  It was very clear that they planned on trying to fill all their immediate needs and were not just willing to punt on them until next year.

Still feels like they did punt on several till next year though.

We have a sort of LT... and a one year rental RT. 

I get that Jonah might still develop but at this point we have to really be considering the possibility that he is made of glass and will be broken every year like Eifert.

At RT, Reiff is here this year and if he plays at a high level, the bidding war begins. Maybe we re-sign him but that's at best a 50/50 chance. 

The only guy we got for tackle is a project that had much lower competition level then Sewell, comes with his own medical red flags (missed two seasons) and is far from a sure thing.

We have a very real possibility that the 2022 OL has zero tackles. I'd be okay with a step down from Chase at X for a season, knowing that we had a tackle on the team that was going to hold down one of the two spots long term. 

That is and will always be my issue with this draft. Now, maybe Jonah proves me wrong and magically gets off the IR and plays at a high level, and Reiff at age 32 coming off a foot injury locks down RT and re-signs and bam... problem is solved. If those two things happen then the Chase pick is fine but that is huge gamble to take when you literally had the guaranteed solution available.

And the biggest thing is this, the Bengals shouldn't be drafting like 2021 is a playoff year. Taylor is still here, Lou is still here, this team is probably a 7 win team. Which is half a game enough to ruin my bet. If you know you are going to rebuild and be down, get the tackle, groom him and get him ready, then hit the 2022 draft with the need of a X and not the need on the line still.

Whatever happens, I just hope the team Chase guys especially go out of their way to buy tickets, Bengals gear and really support the team. Cheer extra loud at the games, buy a hot dog and support the team all the way.

(05-02-2021, 10:52 PM)Benton Wrote: Eh, no.

That was the knock: there were several guys who could play tackle day 1 if Jonah doesn't make it out of camp (again). And If they aren't needed, they could play guard Day1 and wait for that fated day when Jonah goes Jonah.

The knock on Carman is that he's not going to be ready to go day 1 as a guard. 

I think (as do many others) that Carman can play guard. But he's several months off. I think (as do many others) Carman can play tackle... but you're talking at least a couple seasons.

This is just not true at all. No idea why you keep repeating it as much as you are, or believe it so adamantly.

#Bengals select #JacksonCarmen goes home to #Cincinnati A bruiser with NFL-ready power and strength who is
ready for the league right now in that department. The questions
with him revolve around speed and quickness to the edge

— Dan Shonka (@Ourlads_Shonka) May 1, 2021

I’ll go with the former scout for 3 different teams that feels Carman has “NFL ready power and strength and is ready for the league right now in that department” (ie OG). The knock on him is against speed off the edge. But he’s ready to step right in and start at OG right now.

Don’t trust the just one scout? Well, in a poll of several other scouts Bob McGinn did for The Athletic, Carman is the 2nd best OG prospect in this draft after AVT. When the only player ranked ahead of you at a position is a guy who went in the1st round (and a team traded up for), you’re obviously talking about a player that’s expected to come in and start immediately, and make an impact.

Scouts that @BobMcGinn talked to for his The Athletic piece on OL had the following for guard rankings:
1. AVT
2. J Carman
3. A Banks
4. K Green

Of remaining OL, T Jenkins (5), L Dickerson (6), and Carman (7) are the highest ranked by those scouts.https://t.co/zZjx8qMFez

— Jake Liscow (@JakeLiscow) April 30, 2021

(05-03-2021, 07:16 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: This is just not true at all. No idea why you keep repeating it as much as you are, or believe it so adamantly.

#Bengals select #JacksonCarmen goes home to #Cincinnati A bruiser with NFL-ready power and strength who is
ready for the league right now in that department. The questions
with him revolve around speed and quickness to the edge

— Dan Shonka (@Ourlads_Shonka) May 1, 2021

I’ll go with the former scout for 3 different teams that feels Carman has “NFL ready power and strength and is ready for the league right now in that department” (ie OG). The knock on him is against speed off the edge. But he’s ready to step right in and start at OG right now.

Don’t trust the just one scout? Well, in a poll of several other scouts Bob McGinn did for The Athletic, Carman is the 2nd best OG prospect in this draft after AVT. When the only player ranked ahead of you at a position is a guy who went in the1st round (and a team traded up for), you’re obviously talking about a player that’s expected to come in and start immediately, and make an impact.

Scouts that @BobMcGinn talked to for his The Athletic piece on OL had the following for guard rankings:
1. AVT
2. J Carman
3. A Banks
4. K Green

Of remaining OL, T Jenkins (5), L Dickerson (6), and Carman (7) are the highest ranked by those scouts.https://t.co/zZjx8qMFez

— Jake Liscow (@JakeLiscow) April 30, 2021

McGinn is noted for his expertise on offensive lineman.   Every year we see NFL with different rankings than the scribes and if you went to the real experts you can see why.    Check out Bengal-sans videos on Twitter and some other sources and you see why this was a fantastic pick for us.  I like it better than any free agent talked about.  It helps settle a need on the Oline for a long time.  He’s a mauler and perfect for the wide zone.   

If D’ante Smith develops this was a crazy good trade back.

(05-03-2021, 08:30 AM)yang Wrote: If D’ante Smith develops this was a crazy good trade back.

I was watching some clips of him at the senior bowl practice sessions this morning, and if he can put on the necessary weight we might have something in him. I was pretty impressed with what I saw.

I don't have to be happy with how the draft went, but I do have to get over it.

Fwiw, this weekend was probably the biggest emotional response I've had to the Bengals since the 2015 playoff debacle. Like legit, I wasn't even mad when Burrow got hurt - I laughed at the inevitability of it.

I must be ready to get hurt again.

Well, the good thing will be seeing us play the lions in the near future. We'll get a first look at Sewell from a different perspective.

I wouldn't say I was "Team Sewell" but I did have a preference for drafting on OT. Now, do I feel any better about our O-line? Not really. And here's why:

1. While we can't judge a draft for 3 years, I do worry that the 2nd rounder we selected to help out on the inside hasn't played OG in quite some time.
2. The next guy was drafted in the 4th round and is also a tackle.
3. Hopkins is coming off an ACL.

I was worried that we wouldn't address the interior line with quality picks and honestly, I felt like Carmen was a reach at that spot. I also felt like we passed on some really good players in the 2nd round to take him.

Hopefully ONE of these guys pans out.

(05-03-2021, 07:16 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: This is just not true at all. No idea why you keep repeating it as much as you are, or believe it so adamantly.

#Bengals select #JacksonCarmen goes home to #Cincinnati A bruiser with NFL-ready power and strength who is
ready for the league right now in that department. The questions
with him revolve around speed and quickness to the edge

— Dan Shonka (@Ourlads_Shonka) May 1, 2021

I’ll go with the former scout for 3 different teams that feels Carman has “NFL ready power and strength and is ready for the league right now in that department” (ie OG). The knock on him is against speed off the edge. But he’s ready to step right in and start at OG right now.

Don’t trust the just one scout? Well, in a poll of several other scouts Bob McGinn did for The Athletic, Carman is the 2nd best OG prospect in this draft after AVT. When the only player ranked ahead of you at a position is a guy who went in the1st round (and a team traded up for), you’re obviously talking about a player that’s expected to come in and start immediately, and make an impact.

Scouts that @BobMcGinn talked to for his The Athletic piece on OL had the following for guard rankings:
1. AVT
2. J Carman
3. A Banks
4. K Green

Of remaining OL, T Jenkins (5), L Dickerson (6), and Carman (7) are the highest ranked by those scouts.https://t.co/zZjx8qMFez

— Jake Liscow (@JakeLiscow) April 30, 2021

Maybe because Pollack said it?   He said it's going to take some work, things come faster on the inside.  

I'm sorry, but it's tough enough to come in and start in the NFL, to switch positions on the line is going to make it a little harder.

I think he can get it done, but we've seen this before,.

(05-03-2021, 11:07 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Maybe because Pollack said it?   He said it's going to take some work, things come faster on the inside.  

I'm sorry, but it's tough enough to come in and start in the NFL, to switch positions on the line is going to make it a little harder.

I think he can get it done, but we've seen this before,.

Whitworth went from tackle (in college) to Guard and back to tackle (in the NFL).

Its funny how the Sewell fan club was ok with moving Sewell
To OG if need be but when it comes to.Carnen all of a sudden
Its a issue with that.
All the people banging the table for Sewell kept.on.saying he
Has to be the choice, yet.they never have a reason(s)
Specifically why it had to be him other because
Thats what the "experts"