(05-03-2021, 01:29 AM)2MinutesHate Wrote: Mike Brown you can bet is still calling the shots on draft day.  I am willing to bet it was Mike Brown that allowed the media to write up feel good stories about Katie, Troy, Duke and whoever taking over.  When the fans start not coming to the games anymore (I think that's been pretty evident for awhile now), they probably needed to give fans a reason to believe their was changes coming.  I think they had no choice because the fans have been blaming MB for the Bengals failures since 91.  They had to shake things up to take some of the heat off.

While others may have additional duties, you can bet your ass  nobody's getting drafted without MB's stamp of approval.  It's not surprising that MB would reach out to someone who's been loyal to him for 20+ years.  His trust in Paul runs quite deep I'm sure.

MB will remain the top dog with the final say as long as he's above ground, just like his dad did.  Any of you who believe otherwise are just fooling yourselves.  

This is what I truly believe as well. I believe as long as Mike Brown is walking this earth no decisions about this football will be made without his final approval.   The more things "change" they stay the same is what I said before the draft. 

I do think the whole Ring of Honor and new uniforms were a way for the family/organization to pump new sources of funds back into the Brown pocketbook.  Mike Brown never believed in a ROH because his dad didnt believe in a ROH and I'm supposed to believe he's changed that quickly? ha....

Katie, Troy and Elizabeth maybe the "face" of this organization, but Mikeyboy is still in charge. 

(05-03-2021, 11:13 AM)jason Wrote: Remember when Joe Burrows had that magical 2019 season at LSU?... My phone gave me fits on his last name.

Yep lol I remember lots of Joe Burrows on here. Got plenty in texts from my friends too. Spell check is a blessing and a curse.

(05-03-2021, 10:09 AM)ochocincos Wrote: There were more bad OL picks than just Ogbuehi and Fisher, but those two probably stick out the most.

Other OL drafted in the first four rounds since 2000 that were whiffs:
Russell Bodine (really never did anything since leaving CIN)
Jonathan Luigs
Eric Ghiacuic
Stacy Andrews

However, he did hit on the following:
Levi Jones
Eric Steinbach
Whitworth
Anthony Collins (kinda)
Andre Smith
Clint Boling
Kevin Zeitler

Given the last guy that was a "hit" came from 2012, it leads a lot of people to believe the game just passed Alexander by.

You forgot Big Willie. Also his last hit was Connor William's 2018.

(05-03-2021, 12:14 PM)Synric Wrote: You forgot Big Willie. Also his last hit was Connor William's 2018.

Willie was drafted prior to 2000, which is why he was not listed.
I'm also not counting anyone from DAL, since all we care about are the Bengals.

The article doesn't make it clear why Mike was asking about Carman. It could've been that Duke, Zac and Frank already had him as the primary target and Mike was just getting Alexander's input since he worked with him...which seems more likely, IMO.

(05-02-2021, 10:11 PM)Whatever Wrote: I think you're reading more into it than what's there.  

Mike Brown isn't breaking down film on OL prospects and assembling the big board.  Tobin, the coaches, and the scouting staff are doing that.  If Mike asked Paul about Carman first, it's likely because he had been discussed as an option in round 2.  Taylor had said they had Carman at the top of their board.  Since the Bengals were leaning Chase and OL in 2, it makes sense to ask about the OL they had at the top of the board in 2.  

Rational and reasonable take. We need more of that and less imaginary friend that played in the NFL after playing at Clemson anecdotes. 

For whatever its worth

I was down on Alexander towards the end of his Bengal career.

But now I hear him on NFL XM fairly often and honestly he really seems to know his stuff.

His commentary is always informative and he has a good sense of humor.

He is on every week with Pat Kirwan and Jim Miller- who are my two favorite XM NFL commentators. They both have a high level of respect for Alexander and the three of them together do a great job explaining o line issues.

This has given me a new perspective on why Mike Brown might still get advice from the piano man.

(05-03-2021, 12:27 PM)bengals67 Wrote: For whatever its worth

I was down on Alexander towards the end of his Bengal career.

But now I hear him on NFL XM fairly often and honestly he really seems to know his stuff.

His commentary is always informative and he has a good sense of humor.

He is on every week with Pat Kirwan and Jim Miller- who are my two favorite XM NFL commentators. They both have a high level of respect for Alexander and the three of them together do a great job explaining o line issues.

This has given me a new perspective on why Mike Brown might still get advice from the piano man.

He's been a OL coach forever. You don't keep your job for that long if you don't know your stuff. Knowing your stuff and being a great coach isn't the same thing though.

(05-03-2021, 12:18 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The article doesn't make it clear why Mike was asking about Carman. It could've been that Duke, Zac and Frank already had him as the primary target and Mike was just getting Alexander's input since he worked with him...which seems more likely, IMO.

This is what makes sense. Zac and Frank tell Mike they are targeting Carmen in the 2nd, and he calls Alexander to get his opinion..... not that he sought out Alexanders opinion to tell Zac and Frank who to target. This is just old guys getting together at Cracker Barrel for breakfast, nothing else.

The angst against Paul Alexander developed incrementally.  He would start players that  fans view were less talented. I. E.; Eric gutcheck. And others. But I can see why college offense lineman would go to him and others to get noticed by scouts and for training. They don't go just to Paul Alexander they go to many different people.

Carman was seen by several NFL personnel as a first-rounder I don't have the link but those in the know were stating something to the effect that those in the NFL had Carman more highly ranked than the mock draft community.  

Carman played his last year at Clemson with the herniated disc and was in a lot of pain and some thought he should have set out that season but he wanted to be out there with his teammates to help them win.  There was a respected sports training team in Dallas that spoke very highly of him and Big Willie vouched for him.  

I am certain that it wasn't unanimous for the chase pick.  The Cincinnati Bengals war room was probably somewhat divided like the fan base and public were over the two choices.

Frank Pollack would of had major input as his job is on the line. Those in the know had Carman as the top "guard"  in the draft. Even higher than Vera-Tucker.

(05-03-2021, 12:34 PM)Sled21 Wrote: This is what makes sense. Zac and Frank tell Mike they are targeting Carmen in the 2nd, and he calls Alexander to get his opinion..... not that he sought out Alexanders opinion to tell Zac and Frank who to target. This is just old guys getting together at Cracker Barrel for breakfast, nothing else.

I think it's a whole lot to do about nothing.

(05-02-2021, 09:30 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Y'all really believe this crap? Paul Alexander struggling to remain relevant.

he was considered the DEAN of OLs for a long time

(05-03-2021, 10:09 AM)ochocincos Wrote: There were more bad OL picks than just Ogbuehi and Fisher, but those two probably stick out the most.

Other OL drafted in the first four rounds since 2000 that were whiffs:
Russell Bodine (really never did anything since leaving CIN)
Jonathan Luigs
Eric Ghiacuic
Stacy Andrews

However, he did hit on the following:
Levi Jones
Eric Steinbach
Whitworth
Anthony Collins (kinda)
Andre Smith
Clint Boling
Kevin Zeitler

Given the last guy that was a "hit" came from 2012, it leads a lot of people to believe the game just passed Alexander by.

I don't know how many times I have to say it, but he had a career-ending back injury.

That's not a whiff, that's bad luck.

(05-03-2021, 11:27 AM)TJ528 Wrote: This is what I truly believe as well. I believe as long as Mike Brown is walking this earth no decisions about this football will be made without his final approval.   The more things "change" they stay the same is what I said before the draft. 

I do think the whole Ring of Honor and new uniforms were a way for the family/organization to pump new sources of funds back into the Brown pocketbook.  Mike Brown never believed in a ROH because his dad didnt believe in a ROH and I'm supposed to believe he's changed that quickly? ha....

Katie, Troy and Elizabeth maybe the "face" of this organization, but Mikeyboy is still in charge. 

How's your tinfoil hat fitting nowadays?

(05-03-2021, 01:08 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I don't know how many times I have to say it, but he had a career-ending back injury.

That's not a whiff, that's bad luck.

It still resulted in getting basically nothing from the pick.
So in a way, it's a whiff.

(05-02-2021, 09:17 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: Sounds like Mike Brown wanted Carman. So that makes sense why we drafted him over some of the other top OL that were available. I feel a lot better about the pick now.

That seems a rather simplistic reading of it.

Mike Brown is a trained lawyer. If he was the one making the pick he'd have asked a more open question of Alexander, such as "which O-linemen have impressed you?" Instead he asked straight away about an individual, telling us that he was verifying a decision instead of making one. This tells us that it was someone else's choice.

(05-03-2021, 12:34 PM)Sled21 Wrote: This is what makes sense. Zac and Frank tell Mike they are targeting Carmen in the 2nd, and he calls Alexander to get his opinion..... not that he sought out Alexanders opinion to tell Zac and Frank who to target. This is just old guys getting together at Cracker Barrel for breakfast, nothing else.

Almost, except it would more likely have been Duke Tobin rather than Zac and Frank. For a start, Duke is the one with the long-standing relationship with Mike Brown. He's also the one the scouts report into. He's the one who works the trade to move down. Zac doesn't have a free hand with personnel moves. We saw that with Carlos Dunlap who he'd have moved on earlier. Duke may listen to Zac but it is Duke's draft.

(05-03-2021, 01:08 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I don't know how many times I have to say it, but he had a career-ending back injury.

That's not a whiff, that's bad luck.

Stacey Andrew did not even get playing time in college yet he played well enough to get a $40 million contract from the Eagles.

Don't know how you can call that a miss.

(05-03-2021, 01:46 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: That seems a rather simplistic reading of it.

Mike Brown is a trained lawyer. If he was the one making the pick he'd have asked a more open question of Alexander, such as "which O-linemen have impressed you?" Instead he asked straight away about an individual, telling us that he was verifying a decision instead of making one. This tells us that it was someone else's choice.


Almost, except it would more likely have been Duke Tobin rather than Zac and Frank. For a start, Duke is the one with the long-standing relationship with Mike Brown. He's also the one the scouts report into. He's the one who works the trade to move down. Zac doesn't have a free hand with personnel moves. We saw that with Carlos Dunlap who he'd have moved on earlier. Duke may listen to Zac but it is Duke's draft.

Sorry but I don't give this organization the benefit of the doubt, it has been one of the worst run organizations in the history of sports since Mike Brown took over.

This is just such a letdown of an article. I thought we were done with ownership meddling in football operations?

And why the hell is Alexander back? I mean he is directly stepping on Pollacks toes when the owner is taking advice from him.

And lets not forget this is the same guy that drafted Ogbuehi and Fisher back to back...

What a disaster.

Well if this draft was dictated by Mike Brown then he did one hell of a job because it was a really good draft that addressed some real needs of the team. Kudos Mike.