(05-02-2021, 01:24 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: The biggest issue for the line is simple, health.

Jonah is yet to play a full season, if he fails again this year you have to consider it a trend and replace him.

XSF hasn't played a full season in 3 straight years, that is a concern.

Hopkins is coming back from an ACL, let's see what he looks like.

Carman who I loved at Clemson is not a tackle but should be a good guard. If his back isn't an issue he'll be fine.

Rep.  Not counting on a healthy Su'a-Filo being a big upgrade but if Carman is a bust, Hopkins is not ready to play, and Williams goes down with injury again this O-line will be a complete dumpster fire.  Worst in the league.

The second big issue is coaching.  I am not sure if Pollack is that great of an O-line coach, but last year we gave up a lot more sacks based on missed assignments than guys just getting physically beaten.  They all struggled picking up blitzes and simple basic line stunts. 

If everyone is healthy and the coaching makes a difference we still won't have an elite line, but it will be miles ahead of hat we had last year.  We have very good talent at the skill positions.  They should be able to score points with an average to above average line.

(05-01-2021, 10:50 PM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: You guys keep saying RG? The last 2 years, he's played LT. I'd assume it's an easier adjustment for him to just move 1 spot over to LG. Of course, it's going to be an adjustment for him either Guard spot, as everything is much quicker coming at him in either spot. 

I think it will be great competition at Center among Hopkins, Hill and Price. We all know Price is gone after this year. So, we'll see how the competition plays out there. 

Clemson Crosstrains all their offensive linemen so Jackson Carman has had of Practice reps at both tackle and both guard spots. 

It's hard to switch sides during the season but in the offseason a guy can build the muscle memory for which ever side they want to play him.

I don’t know the status of his health or contract demands, but Eric fisher is still out there. A line of him, Jonah, Hopkins, carman and reiff doesn’t sound bad to me. A blend of experience and developmental types on the bench. Just a thought


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(05-02-2021, 01:01 AM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Still too many question marks.

I guess fresh blood is better than the old blood, and a better coach will help quite a bit, but I'm still not 100% sold that the line won't be a repeat of last season.

We can't really compare this year's line to last year's line, because last years line was always changing due to injury. Once the interior of the line settled in with Spain, XFS and Hopkins, it really wasn't that bad. So we at the very least should have that with Williams and Reiff, who is an upgrade over Hart. Through our 2nd rounder, who is a massive man and a road grader in the run game, into the RG position, with Spain in his natural position at LG and XFS as 1st backup, Williams and Reiff in the OT positions, and the only concern I have with that line is if Hopkins will have enough strength back in his legs to play Center effectively. If not, Price will be serviceable with better guards beside him until Hopkins gets back. 

(05-02-2021, 12:33 PM)Sled21 Wrote: We can't really compare this year's line to last year's line, because last years line was always changing due to injury. Once the interior of the line settled in with Spain, XFS and Hopkins, it really wasn't that bad. So we at the very least should have that with Williams and Reiff, who is an upgrade over Hart. Through our 2nd rounder, who is a massive man and a road grader in the run game, into the RG position, with Spain in his natural position at LG and XFS as 1st backup, Williams and Reiff in the OT positions, and the only concern I have with that line is if Hopkins will have enough strength back in his legs to play Center effectively. If not, Price will be serviceable with better guards beside him until Hopkins gets back. 

So we're banking on injury prone linemen being healthy?

Definitely no cause for alarm.

Do u guys even think Price makes the final 53? If Hopkins is a go week 1 I think Price is gone with the addition of Hill.

(05-02-2021, 04:47 PM)Jhowdy54 Wrote: Do u guys even think Price makes the final 53?  If Hopkins is a go week 1 I think Price is gone with the addition of Hill.

One would sure hope this to be the case. Pure bust.

(05-02-2021, 04:49 PM)Beaker Wrote: One would sure hope this to be the case. Pure bust.

He seems to be. I remember how stoked we were with the pick. It happens.

(05-02-2021, 04:47 PM)Jhowdy54 Wrote: Do u guys even think Price makes the final 53?  If Hopkins is a go week 1 I think Price is gone with the addition of Hill.

(05-02-2021, 04:49 PM)Beaker Wrote: One would sure hope this to be the case. Pure bust.

Lot of faith in a 6th round pick. Not saying he can't unseat Price as the back-up center but honestly, Hill is most likely headed to the PS or will be the last man kept on the line. If he is starting next season that should be cause for concern, think about the last 6th round OL the Bengals took in Hakeem Adeniji. He certainly didn't look promising in his limited action.

I think the OL is going to be Zac Taylor's undoing, he consistently says he is fine with what they have and it annoys the crap out of me because he said the same things last year. The fact that he is fine with last years OL says all I need to know about him as a head coach.

(05-02-2021, 04:47 PM)Jhowdy54 Wrote: Do u guys even think Price makes the final 53?  If Hopkins is a go week 1 I think Price is gone with the addition of Hill.

If they cut Price before June 1, the team eats $3.7M in dead cap.  After June 1, the dead money is only about $1.6M, but I think June 1 is when he's due his final signing bonus installment, so it really makes no difference.  If the team cuts Price, they're out $3.7M, either way.

(05-01-2021, 10:14 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: You forgot about us getting D'Ante Smith who is a great OT to learn behind both Reiff and Jonah.

I personally think that Pollack could turn D'Ante Smith into an outstanding OT at the NFL level. He has the measurables that cannot be coached and already plays with a nasty demeanor. When they bulk him up he could be special.

it was hard to not get perceivably better. But lets see it on the field

I know everyone Loves Pollock but He doesnt fix everything.

Obviously should be better because of the playing and coaching additions but still not good enough. If the pieces can stay healthy and in sync with each other that would be a huge benefit.

(05-02-2021, 04:47 PM)Jhowdy54 Wrote: Do u guys even think Price makes the final 53?  If Hopkins is a go week 1 I think Price is gone with the addition of Hill.

We don't save much money cutting Price. He is over $3 mil in dead cap.

So, yes, he makes the 53. Hill is a 6th rd pick coming off surgery on BOTH knees. He and Smith are not roster locks. 

For my money, we still need another NFL level guy at:

1) OT (only have Williams and Reiff). #3 Johnson.
2) C (only have Hopkins). #2 Price.
3) G (Spain & XSF). #3 Carman.

Carman might give us 3 at guard. We'll see. I am not counting on Smith, Hill, Jordan, Adeniji, Johnson, or Price to give us replacement level play. I think they are all below that level.

When I say NFL level guy, I mean a vet who has proven they can play some. Not a rookie/2nd year, unproven type.

EDIT: Oops! Price's dead cap is like $1.7 mil, we would save $2 mil by cutting him. I must have looked at last year's #.

Still, with Hill able to play G as well, I think Jordan, Adeniji, or Johnson are more likely to be cut.

I figure we keep 9/10 on the 53 plus some on the PS:
1) Jonah
2) Reiff
3) Hopkins
4) Carman
5) XSF
6) Spain
---------Top 6---Roster Locks-------
7) Price
8) F. Johnson
9) Hill
10) Smith
----Last 4 inside track------
11) Adeniji
12) Jordan
-----Still with a shot based on camp-------
13) Prince
----PS or nada

Health is key as a full season out of Jonah and Hopkins is a big deal in light of chemistry. Love that we finally have at least fringe starter level competition with XSF/Spain/Carman with one being that thing called depth. Pollack will be a factor but shouldn't be THE lead factor.

I'll give them a solid B in grading the FO's improvement, and a stable C to C- grade OL (including Pollack and prospects). Stiill too many question marks but I look forward to guys reaching their potential. Gone are the days of penning in MJ and Price because the staff "sees something" as opposed to depth!

(05-03-2021, 10:46 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: We don't save much money cutting Price. He is over $3 mil in dead cap.

So, yes, he makes the 53. Hill is a 6th rd pick coming off surgery on BOTH knees. He and Smith are not roster locks. 

For my money, we still need another NFL level guy at:

1) OT (only have Williams and Reiff). #3 Johnson.
2) C (only have Hopkins). #2 Price.
3) G (Spain & XSF). #3 Carman.

Carman might give us 3 at guard. We'll see. I am not counting on Smith, Hill, Jordan, Adeniji, Johnson, or Price to give us replacement level play. I think they are all below that level.

When I say NFL level guy, I mean a vet who has proven they can play some. Not a rookie/2nd year, unproven type.

It's realistic that they'd attract one more vet on a show she offer in light of a path to compete.  The FO making that offer is another thing.  Let's see how the market and extending Bates and Hubbard goes.

(05-02-2021, 01:24 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: The biggest issue for the line is simple, health.

Jonah is yet to play a full season, if he fails again this year you have to consider it a trend and replace him.

XSF hasn't played a full season in 3 straight years, that is a concern.

Hopkins is coming back from an ACL, let's see what he looks like.

Carman who I loved at Clemson is not a tackle but should be a good guard. If his back isn't an issue he'll be fine.

Smith in the fourth round missed his last season, and part of his freshman season and got hurt and didn't play in the senior bowl.

It all plays out perfectly, they have improved the line but the above lists is certainly unsettling.

Totally agree with this and I should have read it before I posted. Many guys with at least questionable health issues.

(05-03-2021, 11:02 PM)phil413 Wrote: It's realistic that they'd attract one more vet on a show she offer in light of a path to compete.  The FO making that offer is another thing.  Let's see how the market and extending Bates and Hubbard goes.

Yep. I think we need another legit WR as well (Thomas/Tate as #4 WR blows, and still no PR). LB could use some help, too.

I just think drafting 3 OL is like a defense mechanism for the FO. "What do you mean we don't care about OL, we picked 3 in the draft!" Meaning, I do not think a FA OL is coming.

For me, it is 2 day 3 guys and a 2nd round reach. 

We had so many holes, no way the draft could fill all of them.

Actually the health issues are being overblown.

XSF is recovered and when he came back was effective. Jonah was actually ready and could have returned week 17 but they decided given the situation to shut him down. Hill's surgery was just meniscus cleanup. And Carman is already 100% - he only missed the scheduled Pro Day because it fell inside his recuperation period. He then scheduled a private one where by all reports he impressed. Also Hopkins by all reports will be ready for camp.

So, we look to be starting Williams - Spain - Hopkins - Carman - Reiff. That is considerably better than what we wheeled out to start last season and IMMENSELY better than when we wheeled our MJ and Redmond at Guard. And the two biggest problems we had on the OL were Guard play before XSF and Spain got into position and as Fred has pointed out constant failure to pick up stunts and blitzes - which again improved once we had a lineup in place long enough to develop a little cohesion.

And, by triple dipping on OL in this draft we have reloaded the OL depth chart. I submit that a reserve corps of Adeniji, XSF, Smith, Hill, Johnson is vastly superior to what we had last year.